Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users • Hacker News Board

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#71

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #56

shadowgovt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and makes people dumber by obscuring what things really are. "What things really are" is microscopic invisible electrical patterns thrumming through specially-shaped chemically-doped sand to shove some crystals back and forth to change some reflected and emitted light frequencies that hit a human eye to be interpreted by a human brain. Literally everything about UX is obscuring what things really are, because what…

I think a good point to bring up despite it being absurd. It's not that current trends in UX hide "what things really are" because we all decide what the metaphors are so much as current UX trends don't teach users the vocabulary we use to talk about the parts of a UI. You literally just have to know what a "search bar" is -- nothing is ever going to tell you. There's no text on the screen that says "Search Bar." The…

Correct. And decades of research have strongly suggested there's an upper limit to how much you can teach the average user.

Remember: XEROX PARC's GUI breakthrough was "What if we make working on a computer feel like pushing stuff around on an office desk." "Educating the user" required walking three-quarters of the way to what they were already familiar with.

Instead of trying to teach users how a search bar is different from a URL bar, there's a lot of meat on the bones of the idea of just making them the same thing. They look like the same thing. They act like the same thing. Maybe they are the same thing?

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#72

Post by HelixEndeavor » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

3np wrote: post #44

rosseloh wrote: post #35

On phone support calls I usually can't even get people who know what a URL, URL bar, or even a search bar, is in the first place. "The box at the top where you type in websites you want to go to." "What are you talking about? I'm computer illiterate, I can't learn any of this fancy tech stuff. I just click my facebook icon and it comes up!" These people get all sorts of confused when something happens in their browse…

> I'm computer illiterate, I can't learn any of this fancy tech stuff. This learned helplessness scares me a bit. It's like the willingness to comprehend stops at "tap". "What are you talking about, 'steering wheel'?! I'm not a greasemonkey, are you talking about the thing I turn to make the car turn?" Not knowing is one thing, refusing to take in any new knowledge is another.

As self-driving cars come closer to reality, I fear your hypothetical will eventually become a real conversation someone will have to unironically have.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#73

Post by mavhc » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

gingerlime wrote: post #60

Interesting though that Amazon keeps (suggests?) https://ebay.co.uk ;-)

that's nothing: https://imgur.com/a/cobItWw

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#74

Post by xattt » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

nend wrote: post #61

rosseloh wrote: post #35

On phone support calls I usually can't even get people who know what a URL, URL bar, or even a search bar, is in the first place. "The box at the top where you type in websites you want to go to." "What are you talking about? I'm computer illiterate, I can't learn any of this fancy tech stuff. I just click my facebook icon and it comes up!" These people get all sorts of confused when something happens in their browse…

Family members for me, but they don't understand the difference between the windows search box in the task bar (next to the "start" button), and google. The difference between Chrome and google.com is lost on them as well. It's a good exercise in patience for me while we go through the steps of describing the differences between searching for things on your computer vs searching for things on the internet, what googl…

I wonder if there’s any stories of anyone suddenly becoming technoliterate after feigning ignorance after a number of years.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#75

Post by bierjunge » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #43

ltbarcly3 wrote: post #17

People who don't know anything get confused, but this is going to be older people who are struggling to use computers, the people that call the Microsoft Edge icon "the internet". Generalizing that "users don't understand" from some autocomplete suggestions does not logically follow.

> People who don't know anything get confused, but this is going to be older people who are struggling to use computers, the people that call the Microsoft Edge icon "the internet". You'd be surprised. Research has found that the "digital native" generations (younger people born into/after the internet age) are no better at these things than the "older people" - the whole "digital native" thing is a myth in this rega…

10-15 years ago a lot of people were saying, that the "digital native" generation will be tech savvy and will surpass everyone with their IT knowledge.

Yeah, right. A few months back in 2021 I was asked how to "make an app on the phone". Not FOR a phone, ON a phone, the complete development only using a phone. WTF?

And no, it wasn't a 12 year old kid, it was a 21 year old guy with a Bachelor of science degree.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#76

Post by eru » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

HelixEndeavor wrote: post #72

3np wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm computer illiterate, I can't learn any of this fancy tech stuff. This learned helplessness scares me a bit. It's like the willingness to comprehend stops at "tap". "What are you talking about, 'steering wheel'?! I'm not a greasemonkey, are you talking about the thing I turn to make the car turn?" Not knowing is one thing, refusing to take in any new knowledge is another.

As self-driving cars come closer to reality, I fear your hypothetical will eventually become a real conversation someone will have to unironically have.

Well, that's how progress looks like.

Computers also used to be only for those willing to geek out and geniuses. Now they are used without thinking too much about them.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#77

Post by asow92 » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

https://isthismyinternetbar.com/?thisIsAJoke=true

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#78

Post by jeffasinger » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

nend wrote: post #61

rosseloh wrote: post #35

On phone support calls I usually can't even get people who know what a URL, URL bar, or even a search bar, is in the first place. "The box at the top where you type in websites you want to go to." "What are you talking about? I'm computer illiterate, I can't learn any of this fancy tech stuff. I just click my facebook icon and it comes up!" These people get all sorts of confused when something happens in their browse…

Family members for me, but they don't understand the difference between the windows search box in the task bar (next to the "start" button), and google. The difference between Chrome and google.com is lost on them as well. It's a good exercise in patience for me while we go through the steps of describing the differences between searching for things on your computer vs searching for things on the internet, what googl…

Interestingly, I think we're seeing less people grow up with general purpose computers, and instead just have an iPad or an android tablet, or a chromebook.

I wonder what things will look in 20 years.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#79

Post by simpleguitar » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

> Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

I remember when google made the URL bar as a search bar. It had the convenience factor, and google had the "search for everything" philosophy.

But we call that a "dark pattern" now.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#80

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

Avicebron wrote: post #58

shadowgovt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and makes people dumber by obscuring what things really are. "What things really are" is microscopic invisible electrical patterns thrumming through specially-shaped chemically-doped sand to shove some crystals back and forth to change some reflected and emitted light frequencies that hit a human eye to be interpreted by a human brain. Literally everything about UX is obscuring what things really are, because what…

I think the post was really talking about the limits of human agency. If we could easily and manually move those electrons ourselves, we probably would be vastly more intuitive and able to tailor the best answer for our query. I think having a relatively intelligible URL bar allows people more freedom from whatever the larger agenda those who would have such an advanced search bar that you type in "object" and it aut…

> why encourage people to use less of their capacity to navigate

Because automating tedium is the purpose of the machine. Most of what we do is in pursuit of allowing the user to do more with less of their capacity.

The URL itself is a naming abstraction to let users identify things. And it's not even a great one; it has some sharp edges from the end-user's point of view (why does the end user care about protocol? They just want the thing. Why do they care about domain? They just want the thing. Why is the path nine slashes long? The thing they saw yesterday was just "history of mesopotamia;" if they type that in, they should just get the thing). Allowing the bar to accept and intelligently identify multiple different ways to identify things is an increase in capability, not a decrease.