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Is going to the office a broken way of working?

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Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Anything to avoid getting a vaccine. Any excuse imaginable. Got it. > Nobody experienced any symptoms after contacting me. Sure except you know people can transmit diseases without showing signs of symptoms. It's called being asymptomatic. > Ok. Would you be so kind to tell me how is a vaccine supposed to be better than contacting all the mutations of the actual live virus besides the fact the latter gives you…

> Right. Anything to avoid getting a vaccine. Any excuse imaginable. Got it. No. Just only get vaccinated if I understand why I should (I mean why I should, not why everybody should). Avoid everything if I don't understand why it is going to help me or anyone around me in my particular case. "Let's just apply the measure to everyone to get a better total result" approach doesn't convince me, I'm a strong proponent of…

Omg lol. How do you know you didn’t get the “old strain” of the virus when you contracted COVID?

If you’re worried about mRNA for absolutely no scientific or educated reason whatsoever then why not get JnJ?

Even if you somehow know that you got a “newer” strain eventually there will be even more new strains. Are you just planning on getting yourself sick forever? What about when we are able to predict the strains that will become prevalent and we can just send out boosters shots for those? Are you going to sit it out and try and get sick instead?

By that logic you should go get Lyme Disease and not the vaccine before it. Build up your immunity.

> But I wouldn't hurry even if they were because not tested enough.

Describe exactly the scientific reasoning that explains what is “tested enough” and your educated and scientific basis for this. Every physician and scientist says that if there are troubles with a vaccine they appear shortly after (a month or maybe slightly longer) the vaccine goes into the population. Please explain the exact scientific details explaining why the mRNA vaccines or the Johnson & Johnson vaccine would not follow this pattern.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right. Anything to avoid getting a vaccine. Any excuse imaginable. Got it. No. Just only get vaccinated if I understand why I should (I mean why I should, not why everybody should). Avoid everything if I don't understand why it is going to help me or anyone around me in my particular case. "Let's just apply the measure to everyone to get a better total result" approach doesn't convince me, I'm a strong proponent of…

Omg lol. How do you know you didn’t get the “old strain” of the virus when you contracted COVID? If you’re worried about mRNA for absolutely no scientific or educated reason whatsoever then why not get JnJ? Even if you somehow know that you got a “newer” strain eventually there will be even more new strains. Are you just planning on getting yourself sick forever? What about when we are able to predict the strains tha…

> How do you know you didn’t get the “old strain” of the virus when you contracted COVID?

Because the immunity still works. Both empirically and according to the antibody tests. Despite (or thanks to, if this actually works like booster shots) regular contact with many new people and all strain waves declared. If by some miracle all my immunity comes from the first contact and has nothing to do with anything newer then Ok, cool, but this doesn't mean the vaccine based on the same or older strain is better. Given the antibodies level I don't think need to boost it or have higher chances of infecting anybody than vaccinated people do.

> What about when

Perhaps I will get a shot once an updated vaccine gets released and about a year passes.

> By that logic you should go get Lyme Disease and not the vaccine before it. Build up your immunity.

AFAIK with the Lyme disease the chances it will work out this way - without harm and with reliable immunity as the result are very low if any. With coronaviruses the chance is well above 50% when you are young and fit. Nevertheless I still recommend everyone who doesn't have much antibodies yet go and get the shot already.

> Describe exactly the scientific reasoning that explains what is “tested enough”

Not exactly scientific, just intuitive: it has been deployed to large diverse population in diverse set of places, some reasonable time passed, it helped a lot, no bugs found.

You write a lot (for what I want thank you, and I would feel very grateful if you managed to change my mind, I really value input which can correct or expand my understanding), mostly reasonable, but seemingly ignore (or excuse me if I missed a clear answer) the key question of mine: what's the reason (strictly scientific or speculative, I don't insist) to believe the vaccines will get me better antibodies than those I already have? As for my worry it can actually weaken my immunity I'm perfectly aware it's just a superstition based on nothing else but lack of knowledge + "don't mess with what works" mentality so I don't ask for any counterarguments to this.

And by the way, vaccines are not just a virus/mRNA, there also are adjuvants (a word even the spell checker doesn't know) which contribute a lot to both the intended effect and adverse reactions AFAIK. AFAIK this is why many people (including many of those I know personally) still feel terribly sick the day after a the shot even if they were already immune.

Fun fact: there are places in Europe where you can get vaccinated (legally, with ab approved vaccine) but won't be given the certificate so all the places requiring vaccination will still demand you to get vaccinated again. No matter the antibodies you've gotten in response to the vaccine.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omg lol. How do you know you didn’t get the “old strain” of the virus when you contracted COVID? If you’re worried about mRNA for absolutely no scientific or educated reason whatsoever then why not get JnJ? Even if you somehow know that you got a “newer” strain eventually there will be even more new strains. Are you just planning on getting yourself sick forever? What about when we are able to predict the strains tha…

> How do you know you didn’t get the “old strain” of the virus when you contracted COVID? Because the immunity still works. Both empirically and according to the antibody tests. Despite (or thanks to, if this actually works like booster shots) regular contact with many new people and all strain waves declared. If by some miracle all my immunity comes from the first contact and has nothing to do with anything newer th…

I have two issues. The first one is the suggestion that there is anything “unnatural” or harmful about the vaccines or that they are “new” and therefore dangerous. There is 0 reason to believe this. None whatsoever.

The second is this:

> … to believe the vaccines will get me better antibodies than those I already have

My point isn’t that you need to rush out and get the vaccine right this second - it’s that your immune response is equivalent to having got the vaccine except that in the future, just like those who received the vaccine you will need some sort of re-exposure via contracting the virus from another person or via a vaccine in order to maintain your immune response.

You’re suggesting you won’t get a vaccine as this occurs - instead of obtaining a booster shot equivalent which would train your immune system without risking severe illness you’d prefer to contract COVID again and roll the dice. No clue when you obtained it, maybe even walking around spreading it asymptotically…

Your strategy works for the short term, but fails in the medium to long term.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own, but to be honest I'm always baffled, and quite saddened, by this "don't make friends at work" "advice". I've made many, many friends at work, and this near-paranoia level of "you might be pissing off someone else" - so what? I don't need, or want, to be friends with everyone, and I'm quite fine if some people don't like me.

Because you're at work to have a good career and get paid. >so what so they talk behind your back, and that's not good for a work environment. so if any of them are in management, they will impede your career. so eventually when one of those guys you pissed off has a couple of beers too many at a company outing, he is going to talk office-inappropriate crap, and despite what you might think that is bad not just for h…

Get cancer and die.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#465

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

I've said this before on Hacker News, and now I wish to repeat, if you live in New York City, I host a once-a-month party, mostly for tech people. Very informal. You can get the vibe from the photos here: http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/everyone-was-amazing-... It's simply meant to give people a chance to meet other like minded people. Especially in this era of working-from-home it is too easy to end up feelin…

This is great on so many levels. That’s a great model that would work well in almost any town. I’d definitely go if I was in New York. Well done!

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know you didn’t get the “old strain” of the virus when you contracted COVID? Because the immunity still works. Both empirically and according to the antibody tests. Despite (or thanks to, if this actually works like booster shots) regular contact with many new people and all strain waves declared. If by some miracle all my immunity comes from the first contact and has nothing to do with anything newer th…

I have two issues. The first one is the suggestion that there is anything “unnatural” or harmful about the vaccines or that they are “new” and therefore dangerous. There is 0 reason to believe this. None whatsoever. The second is this: > … to believe the vaccines will get me better antibodies than those I already have My point isn’t that you need to rush out and get the vaccine right this second - it’s that your immu…

I see. No, I don't think anything is "unnatural" in any esoteric sense. I only use the "natural" word to define the case of getting the immunity through contact with the virus in the wild because no better word comes to my mind. I imply no positive/negative meaning.

> in the future, just like those who received the vaccine you will need some sort of re-exposure via contracting the virus from another person or via a vaccine in order to maintain your immune response.

I just believe I contact it every day (or every week - I don't really know what the percent of infected people around is) and maintain my immune response this way. I use crowded public transport several times a day (wearing a mask of course), also meet many people and they mostly don't wear masks outside public transport and groceries (and even there many people leave their noses uncovered).

And I don't even have to speculate about this as long as I watch the level of the antibodies.

I don't say I am going to avoid the vaccine forever and rather go get infected when my immunity wears off. I just believe I only should go and get the shot once I see the level of the antibodies decreased. E.g. the Austrian government thinks the same.

Am I wrong?

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#467
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of people who are staying home not because they're worried about COVID, but more because they've come to enjoy the seclusion and convenience of ordering delivery all the time.

As someone who 'enjoyed the convenience of delivery' long before the coronavirus pandemic, it's quite weird to realise that wasn't as normal (then) as it seemed. City bubble I suppose. Or not-having-a-car (hardly unusual for London) bubble. (I don't mean takeaway food - though it's certainly 'normal' among certain demographics.. - just groceries, Amazon, etc.)

I live in Tokyo and prefer to go out and eat, despite delivery being easy. Food tastes better when it’s fresh, not served in a plastic container, in a nice environment, and it’s not even hard to do - hundreds of options within a 10 minute walk of my apartment.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#468
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who 'enjoyed the convenience of delivery' long before the coronavirus pandemic, it's quite weird to realise that wasn't as normal (then) as it seemed. City bubble I suppose. Or not-having-a-car (hardly unusual for London) bubble. (I don't mean takeaway food - though it's certainly 'normal' among certain demographics.. - just groceries, Amazon, etc.)

I live in Tokyo and prefer to go out and eat, despite delivery being easy. Food tastes better when it’s fresh, not served in a plastic container, in a nice environment, and it’s not even hard to do - hundreds of options within a 10 minute walk of my apartment.

Like I said I'm not talking about takeaway food - which I pretty much never order, agree I'd rather eat in a restaurant. I mean about getting groceries (with which I can prepare the meal) delivered.

But I suppose same would stand to compare picking up a takeaway in person vs. having it delivered. (i.e. if that's what I ate, I would almost certainly have it delivered.)

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