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An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

reuters.com

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Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#131
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all US credit card companies are like this. I specifically remember a few years ago that my Mom got a call from AMEX about some fraud on her card, to which she responded “I never get calls from you, how do I know this is real?”. They said no problem, just hang up and call the number on the back of your card. I believe some banks even skip the call entirely, and just prompt you to call the number on the card.

On traditional landline phones that older folk tend to use (although I guess that's dwindling every year) a common tactic for scammers is to ask the victim to call the number on the back of the card. However the scammers don't hang up they just play a fake dial tone so the victim dials the number thinking they're contacting their bank but they're actually just speaking to the scammers again

How did that work?

In the Netherlands, in the 80s-00s at least, hanging up cleared your line, so picking it up again would get you a fresh dialtone even if the other side didn't hang up (and the other side would get a modified "busy" signal if you hung up on them).

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#132
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worth noting: * UK infrastructure makes number spoofing very easy. * UK banking legislation (and court rulings) put banks in a difficult position: they MUST accept a clients instruction to transfer money and do so rapidly (unless doing so would be a crime).

I would be interested in knowing which court rulings those are.

Some of the more recent judgements are outlined here:

https://www.mondaq.com/uk/financial-services/1056304/uk-high...

But it goes all the way back to common law. Basically the bank is a customers agent and must obey instructions to the best of its ability. It must exercise reasonable skill etc obeying those instructions. But unless it suspects fraud it cannot disobey. To quote: a bank is not required to act as an amateur detective.

There is very little room for them to decline a customer instruction once given. It needs to be pretty blatant fraud or otherwise illegal. Sending money to another account is neither on the face of it.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see ads on instagram offering to buy or borrow your bank account for £50... and when they're used for muling guess who it is that gets their account banned and then a CIFAS marker ensuring they can't bank anywhere else? The desperate kid who needed the money, not the actual criminals behind it.

Yet another reason for regulating advertising. Why are these platforms not held liable as accomplices? I can't think of any legitimate reason for an ad to buy/rent someone's bank account.

At least in my experience these aren’t official ads. It’s random sketchy people posting about “business opportunities” with stacks of cash or whatever.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#134
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see ads on instagram offering to buy or borrow your bank account for £50... and when they're used for muling guess who it is that gets their account banned and then a CIFAS marker ensuring they can't bank anywhere else? The desperate kid who needed the money, not the actual criminals behind it.

Acting as a mule for money laundering is a crime. They are criminals. They might be young, but the majority of them know they are doing something wrong.

I'm not suggesting they aren't criminals. But there is a spectrum of criminality and I am suggesting they are considerably less so than the leaders of the fraud ring.

These ads are deliberately designed to prey on the desperate, unfortunate or the technically illiterate.

Some of them probably know exactly what they're doing and I have no sympathy, but some of them probably fall into the same category as people falling for Authorised Push Payment fraud.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#135

I had a long argument with HSBC UK Security a few years ago where I was completely unable to get the to understand they were putting their customers at risk. In the event that something looked strange on your account the 'HSBC Fraud Department' would text you and ask them to call you on a phone number. A phone number that didn't appear anywhere on their website. "We don't want it public. OK,well at least put it on a…

I had a similar experience from HSBC. They called me about a potential fraudulent claim. They asked for my DOB, card number, sort code, you know, to verify "that I am who I say"... all the stuff they SHOULDN'T ask, and stupidly I gave it all up. To be fair, I did because my card had been rejected literally 30 seconds before while trying to make a purchase. But it was only after the phone call ended that I realised wh…

In fairness HSBC calls from known numbers (granted, you may not recognise it the first time, but you can look it up then save it) and publishes numbers where you can call them [1]

[1] https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/security-centre/report-a-problem...

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On traditional landline phones that older folk tend to use (although I guess that's dwindling every year) a common tactic for scammers is to ask the victim to call the number on the back of the card. However the scammers don't hang up they just play a fake dial tone so the victim dials the number thinking they're contacting their bank but they're actually just speaking to the scammers again

How did that work? In the Netherlands, in the 80s-00s at least, hanging up cleared your line, so picking it up again would get you a fresh dialtone even if the other side didn't hang up (and the other side would get a modified "busy" signal if you hung up on them).

Because when you hear the other side (pretend to) hang up, you need to not be fooled and also hang up on your side. If you don't hang up on your side, then on older phones you actually have no way of telling the call is still going.

On your smartphone, it's easier to not fall in this trap, as the screen is making it harder to type a phone number while the call is still going.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#137

Britain being where the victims are, not the criminals. Some reasons why Brits might be so so vulnerable: * Major: English speaking so common to be targeted from less affluent ex-commonwealth countries. * Major: Ageing population have most of the wealth. * Major: Lots of vulnerable victims online and relatively high social media engagement. * Major: Little fear of retaliation (other than Jim Browning). The UK is havi…

It's also because the britanic banking system decided that, on the safety / usability balance, they would choose usability. Banking in britanic banking system is way easier than anywhere else. I remember when I was a student, they sent a bus to the university, so we could just hop in, arrive at the bank, and open an account as an immigrant in 15 minutes. Try to do that in France, you would get your card, what, next m…

Just an fyi, for at least the last 6 years it is very difficult for any kind of migrant to open an account

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#138
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US credit card companies aren't any better. I recently had a similar "fraud alert." The company ditched travel notices in 2016 claiming their AI was good enough to replace it. A few weeks after traveling I had a very small purchase flagged (under $20 at a place like Target). When I called the number they asked me for my complete credit card number, social security number, they didn't know my phone number or email and…

Amex?

American Express

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#140
Two days ago, I purchased a subscription online and my bank app thought it was a security incident, blocked the transaction and discarded the online virtual card I was using, informed me about the whole process and asked me to create another virtual card to replace all my other 6 subscriptions that were linked to the now defunct card.

I'm discovering Revolut.

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