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An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

reuters.com

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Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#91

Post by tome »

mdp2021 wrote: post #65
robotmay wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah spam calls are a nuisance in this country. Oddly I've gotten far fewer recently. My technique for answering unknown numbers seems to get me removed from a lot of lists: Pick up the phone, but stay silent. If it's an auto-dialler, it usually disconnects automatically after 4 seconds, and seemingly gets you removed from the list (as either a dead line or a machine I guess). Sometimes this catches legitimate call c…

You do not use caller number review websites? In some cultures, most callers (private individuals) would not start speaking themselves before hearing a sign of presence from the other side: you filter out auto-diallers, but also contacts you did not have in your address book.

They seem to use such varied numbers that phone number databases are no longer useful.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#92

Post by dboreham »

adventured wrote: post #49
happyflower wrote: post #33

Why can a 78-year old widow's life savings be managed through an online bank system? Bring back local branch offices where people have to manage their high-risk accounts in-person.

That's pretty interesting, because the US is often stereotyped for being aggressively cost-cutting in pursuit of margin. And yet in the middle of nowhere in the US local bank branches are still very common. I can easily get someone from my bank on the phone any time I need to. And if anyone attempts to move a large sum of money out of my account, the bank will promptly call me and freeze the action unless I allow it.…

The US has weird banking regulations dating back to the depression that lead to this situation. I'm sure banks in the US would love to close everything and consolidate into 2-3 megabanks like in the UK.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#93

Post by stormdennis »

I once made a fruitless suggestion that financial emergiencies should be treated the same as all others, ie diall911/999. When the operator would answer you'd say I've got a financial emergency and you'd be redirected appropriately. Further, I suggested that one's account should be deemed protected from the moment one dialled 911. That way, no matter how plausible the scammer sounded , everyone wouold know that a simple foolproof course of action was available, dial 911.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#94

Post by avianlyric »

LatteLazy wrote: post #46
Johnyma22 wrote: post #5

Britain being where the victims are, not the criminals. Some reasons why Brits might be so so vulnerable: * Major: English speaking so common to be targeted from less affluent ex-commonwealth countries. * Major: Ageing population have most of the wealth. * Major: Lots of vulnerable victims online and relatively high social media engagement. * Major: Little fear of retaliation (other than Jim Browning). The UK is havi…

Also worth noting: * UK infrastructure makes number spoofing very easy. * UK banking legislation (and court rulings) put banks in a difficult position: they MUST accept a clients instruction to transfer money and do so rapidly (unless doing so would be a crime).

> they MUST accept a clients instruction to transfer money and do so rapidly (unless doing so would be a crime).

Not quite true. Banks are required to accept and process instructions quickly, the general idea being that bank should never prevent an individual from accessing their own money. But protecting a client from fraud is a legitimate reason for slowing down a transaction, you just can't delay it indefinitely. There are plenty of UK banks that will delay outbound bank payments by up to 24 hours if they think there's a good chance someone is being defrauded.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#95

Post by robinson-wall »

avianlyric wrote: post #87
mysterypie wrote: post #68

What's always missing from stories like this is how the crooks get the money out. Considering that all Western governments have achieved total surveillance on our banking and made it impossible to have anonymous bank accounts, I'd like to see a detailed analysis about why they can't follow the money and see who gets it. Every scenario I can think of seems like it should be either traceable or actionable. Scenario 1:…

Go and look up the concept of money mules. Fraudsters don't need to setup bank accounts, they either buy bank accounts off people for £50, or convince people to move the money on their behalf by claiming they're doing an "accounting" job that involves large money movements, and the mule will get paid a percentage. Most people don't realise what these accounts are used for, or just don't care because they're paid enou…

You see ads on instagram offering to buy or borrow your bank account for £50... and when they're used for muling guess who it is that gets their account banned and then a CIFAS marker ensuring they can't bank anywhere else? The desperate kid who needed the money, not the actual criminals behind it.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#96

Post by vanilla-almond »

A recent new scam is delivery text (SMS) messages [1]. You are expecting a parcel delivery and receive a text message saying you have missed a delivery. The text asks you to rearrange delivery by paying for the cost of re-delivery. The link takes you to a scam website asking for payment from which you enter card details.

I have had these scam delivery text messages. On one occasion, I almost fell for it because the scam text message coincided with an expected parcel delivery. The text messages randomly target people without knowing whether people are expecting parcels, but it undoubtedly succeeds in tricking some people who are genuinely expecting a parcel.

[1] Delivery text scams: the nasty new fraud wave sweeping the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/18/delivery-text-...

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#97

Post by valdiorn »

Angostura wrote: post #50

I had a long argument with HSBC UK Security a few years ago where I was completely unable to get the to understand they were putting their customers at risk. In the event that something looked strange on your account the 'HSBC Fraud Department' would text you and ask them to call you on a phone number. A phone number that didn't appear anywhere on their website. "We don't want it public. OK,well at least put it on a…

I had a similar experience from HSBC. They called me about a potential fraudulent claim. They asked for my DOB, card number, sort code, you know, to verify "that I am who I say"... all the stuff they SHOULDN'T ask, and stupidly I gave it all up.

To be fair, I did because my card had been rejected literally 30 seconds before while trying to make a purchase. But it was only after the phone call ended that I realised what I had done. I phoned them back on a number listed on their website, asked them to confirm that I had indeed spoken with HSBC fraud detection, and they confirmed. I then lambasted them for asking me all the questions they tell their customers never to answer.

They're just training their customers to give out information, and even alert customers like myself can sometimes have a moment of panic and comply.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#98

Post by ajsnigrutin »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #81
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah.. but again, the number could also be in the footer of the banks website. People usually get scammed when they have the card with them... when they lose the card, they're the one actively looking for a phone number, and not presented with one from a scammer.

- "Sir, I'm calling you because I found your card, I called your bank, and they gave me your number. They told me you should report the card as lost in case it's been used fraudulently with the phone number that is written at the back of the card" - "Can you send me back the card?" - "I'm in a train, I won't be able to do that for a while. You should really call" - "But I don't have the number" - "I can read it to yo…

But for this, you must lose a card, not realize you lost it, a scammer must find your card, and he must somehow get your phone number to scam you.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#99

Post by nikanj »

mysterypie wrote: post #68

What's always missing from stories like this is how the crooks get the money out. Considering that all Western governments have achieved total surveillance on our banking and made it impossible to have anonymous bank accounts, I'd like to see a detailed analysis about why they can't follow the money and see who gets it. Every scenario I can think of seems like it should be either traceable or actionable. Scenario 1:…

Scenario 3: Unsuspecting people are recruited to get "Bitcoin management operator" jobs, where they receive funds on their account, buy bitcoin with said funds and send the coins over.

In the past, the same mules were sending Western money transfers or similar, but nowadays cryptos are so handy most criminals have migrated to it.

After a few months the cops usually come knocking, and depending on the jurisdiction, the poor mule is hit with fine/jailtime and/or the debt

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#100

Post by valdiorn »

vanilla-almond wrote: post #96

A recent new scam is delivery text (SMS) messages [1]. You are expecting a parcel delivery and receive a text message saying you have missed a delivery. The text asks you to rearrange delivery by paying for the cost of re-delivery. The link takes you to a scam website asking for payment from which you enter card details. I have had these scam delivery text messages. On one occasion, I almost fell for it because the s…

yup, now with EU/Brexit import duties and VAT on everything, the carriers (DHL/UPS/FedEx) have been made responsible for collecting the fees on the govts. behalf, but they also don't want to slow down delivery, stop it at customs, send a letter to you, wait 3 days for you to pay, etc - so they send a text with a link to a really shady payment gateway where they tell you there's a fee to pay. Mind you, this is what the legitimate carriers do.

After that, it was easy for fraudsters to just spam links to everyone to similar looking pages. I often have 5-6 pending order now, since COVID I buy literally everything online, and I can't keep track of everything that's inbound. I'm sure a lot of people are in a similar situation, which makes this scam very effective.

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