Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 224 posts

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#121

Post by samhw »

foldr wrote: post #71
samhw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar. I worked at a (fairly technological) UK bank, where we did investigations into scams like this. There's really not much that can be done about most of these scams, other than taking your multivitamins to prevent cognitive decline.

Is it really the case that not much can be done, or just that the resources aren't there to do it? Your average scammer isn't a criminal genius. You'd think a bit of good old fashioned police work would suffice in a lot of cases – if there were actually some police officers available to do that.

We worked a fair bit with the police, and I never got the impression we were frustrated with their inaction. They devoted a lot of resources to it, but it's part of the nature of the beast that there just don't need to be as many officer hours per victim as there would be for a rape or murder.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#122

Post by samhw »

pjc50 wrote: post #61
samhw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar. I worked at a (fairly technological) UK bank, where we did investigations into scams like this. There's really not much that can be done about most of these scams, other than taking your multivitamins to prevent cognitive decline.

> really not much that can be done about most of these scams I'm surprised that in the surveillance state it's that easy to disappear with the money.

It's not just one surveillance state ;)

Most of these scammers are outside the UK, in India or Africa somewhere. Those countries do put a lot of resources into capturing 'Yahoo boys' and the like, but it's sometimes like looking for a needle in a haystack. I think the more realistic solution is to educate people so they don't fall for some of these preposterously blatant scams.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#123

Post by djhworld »

easton wrote: post #117
pfranz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US credit card companies aren't any better. I recently had a similar "fraud alert." The company ditched travel notices in 2016 claiming their AI was good enough to replace it. A few weeks after traveling I had a very small purchase flagged (under $20 at a place like Target). When I called the number they asked me for my complete credit card number, social security number, they didn't know my phone number or email and…

Not all US credit card companies are like this. I specifically remember a few years ago that my Mom got a call from AMEX about some fraud on her card, to which she responded “I never get calls from you, how do I know this is real?”. They said no problem, just hang up and call the number on the back of your card. I believe some banks even skip the call entirely, and just prompt you to call the number on the card.

On traditional landline phones that older folk tend to use (although I guess that's dwindling every year) a common tactic for scammers is to ask the victim to call the number on the back of the card.

However the scammers don't hang up they just play a fake dial tone so the victim dials the number thinking they're contacting their bank but they're actually just speaking to the scammers again

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#124

Post by tremon »

simonh wrote: post #62
Chris2048 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are these databases used to police/punish the stereotypical Nigerian scammer?

I don't think that's a reasonable question, not all scammers are Nigerian. Some are based in the UK, others in Europe. Also the EU had data sharing agreements and collaboration outreach with police forces all over the world that we also lost access to. That's one of the complications with our data sharing with the EU; they have agreements to share data with non-EU countries on the basis that their data is only shared…

The intended interpretation is (Nigerian scam)mer, not (Nigerian) scammer; the scammers aren't Nigerian, the scam is. It refers to one of the earliest well-known forms of a type of e-mail scam: "Hello, I'm a Nigerian prince with a lots of funds but I can't access it, please send me $amount so I can get access and I will return it ten-fold".

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#125

Post by accnumnplus1 »

Johnyma22 wrote: post #5

Britain being where the victims are, not the criminals. Some reasons why Brits might be so so vulnerable: * Major: English speaking so common to be targeted from less affluent ex-commonwealth countries. * Major: Ageing population have most of the wealth. * Major: Lots of vulnerable victims online and relatively high social media engagement. * Major: Little fear of retaliation (other than Jim Browning). The UK is havi…

Nothing so complicated. With open borders the UK was a popular destination - and the training ground, and work environment. Now lockdowns have forced people to double down. Some below mentioned the infamous Nigerians, it's usually the Albanian region.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#126

Post by azalemeth »

It utterly infuriates me that banks won't let you use their mobile apps -- which are inevitably their websites packaged in a bundle, with added tracking -- on a rooted (or jailbroken) phone, even though I am sure that the overwhelming majority of users on android who have a rooted device are likely to be the most technically sophisticated, with (in my case) the presence of mind to install updates to their four-year-old but perfectly usable device that would otherwise be considered EOL by its manufacturer. Meanwhile, the banks are expanding the contactless limit to £300 -- despite academics showing that covert antennas can do "wallet sniping" easily -- and have a horrendous attitude to security. 2FA is entirely based around random numbers and "Private Number" caller-ID barred phone numbers -- meaning that if someone was spoofing your account details, you'd never know. Their fraud detection algorithms tend to be quite good, but only if "your" criminal has stereotypical tastes -- I've been called up after I bought a computer at the apple store, for example, which is in-keeping with me, but not when my card was cloned and someone bought lots of drinks at a Weatherspoons.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#127

Post by franga2000 »

jl6 wrote: post #37
franga2000 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Jim Browning definitely needs to go teach law enforcement how to do their job, preferably in exchange for the biggest consulting cheque the world has ever seen. Ths problem, as always, is that they don't actually want to do that. They'd rather stay incompetent because it lets them let criminals off more easily. We have the same problem where I live but with illegal work for often far below minimum wage. The cop…

Did you report the wage theft crime that you suspected?

I didn't have any proof, only the word of a few people that were still working for him and couldn't afford to lose their jobs.

I do however know that he was reported and investigated at least once by a former employee, but the investigation unsurprisingly found no proof ("agreements" were all verbal and everything was done in cash). The cops said that with just one testimony a conviction was unlikely and nothing really came of it.

In general, these things rarely get resolved because the worker can't risk snitching because they'd lose their only source of income and once they leave and get a better job, they're just happy it's behind them and don't pursue it further.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#128

Post by q1w2 »

robinson-wall wrote: post #95
avianlyric wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go and look up the concept of money mules. Fraudsters don't need to setup bank accounts, they either buy bank accounts off people for £50, or convince people to move the money on their behalf by claiming they're doing an "accounting" job that involves large money movements, and the mule will get paid a percentage. Most people don't realise what these accounts are used for, or just don't care because they're paid enou…

You see ads on instagram offering to buy or borrow your bank account for £50... and when they're used for muling guess who it is that gets their account banned and then a CIFAS marker ensuring they can't bank anywhere else? The desperate kid who needed the money, not the actual criminals behind it.

Acting as a mule for money laundering is a crime. They are criminals. They might be young, but the majority of them know they are doing something wrong.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#129

Post by mFixman »

I moved to Britain a couple of years ago, and I was surprised at how many legitimate transactions are done in an insecure way.

For example, I had had to talk my credit card number out loud on a telephone call to put a deposit on a flat and to renew some subscriptions.

At the same time, most high street banks have terrible security infrastructure: HSBC regularly calls me and asks me to give sensitive information and sends me PIN codes via snail mail and text message.

These things tend to work in a first-world high-trust society like the UK, but I'm not surprised that people fall for these scams. I'm lucky that most of them seem to target older and more gullible people than I; otherwise they could be impossible to separate from legitimate actions.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#130

Post by latchkey »

pfranz wrote: post #64
Angostura wrote: post #50

I had a long argument with HSBC UK Security a few years ago where I was completely unable to get the to understand they were putting their customers at risk. In the event that something looked strange on your account the 'HSBC Fraud Department' would text you and ask them to call you on a phone number. A phone number that didn't appear anywhere on their website. "We don't want it public. OK,well at least put it on a…

US credit card companies aren't any better. I recently had a similar "fraud alert." The company ditched travel notices in 2016 claiming their AI was good enough to replace it. A few weeks after traveling I had a very small purchase flagged (under $20 at a place like Target). When I called the number they asked me for my complete credit card number, social security number, they didn't know my phone number or email and…

Amex?
Post reply on HN