Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online • Hacker News Board

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#61

Post by pelasaco » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

schleck8 wrote: post #17

junon wrote: post #3

I'm a US expat living in Germany, and boy is the anti-nuclear sentiment real here. There have even been fights - physical altercations - between Green Party members at rallies for having differing viewpoints about nuclear. Unfortunately, it seems those who are against are working with very outdated information and 'tropes' w.r.t. nuclear safety and whatnot. Quite unfortunate.

It's like a religion to some people. Has been this way for decades, certain folks never left the hippie ideology behind

its worse now. Because they are the majority in all media and are pretty aggressive too.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#62

Post by Gwypaas » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

initplus wrote: post #55

Gwypaas wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that why it is impossible to insure a nuclear power plant on the private market?

If fossil fuel power plants were legally responsible for harm caused by their carbon emissions, they would also be impossible to insure.

Who compares against fossil plants nowadays? Except wanting to put a carbon tax on them to account for that issue you mention.

Truly, it's new built nuclear compared compared to renewables, storage and long-distance distance transmission. Spatial and temporal arbitrage of energy.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#63

Post by pelasaco » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

petre wrote: post #19

Good luck with the Greens now as the #3 party. The authors of the letter are right, Germany will miss its 65% emissions target and politicians will try to fix this with carbon credits and other policy BS which of course doesn't quite work in practice, since clean electricity doesn't come out of thin air.

Facts < Feelings, unfortunately...

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#64

Post by 988747 » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

open-source-ux wrote: post #51

dr_dshiv wrote: post #7

Safe nuclear power needs German engineering.

" Safe nuclear power needs German engineering " France and Germany jointly developed the European Pressurised Reactor (EBR). In France, development was led by Framatome and EDF, and in Germany by Siemens. There are currently 3 nuclear plants under construction (or almost ready for operation) using EBR in Europe - they are in France, Finland and the UK. Unfortunately, all three plants are over-budget and over-schedule…

France has just made an offer to build 4-6 such reactors in Poland. I really hope our government takes the deal, cause we need nuclear power. Even if it also ends up over-budget and over-schedule that's still good thing to have such modern reactors.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#65

Post by rich_sasha » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

red_trumpet wrote: post #49

fsflover wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is statistically safer than almost anything even if you take Chernobyl and Fukushima into account.

What do you mean by "safer"? Less accidents compared to eg coal plants? No exploding coal plant will render a whole region unlivable for >30 years. Both happened at Tschernobyl and Fukushima.

Areas around coal power plants can exceed radioactivity limits for nuclear power plants, due to trace elements in the soot landing back down. Never mind all the other stuff.

That’s pretty nasty, I’d rather be close to a nuclear power plant.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#66

Post by joconde » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

topspin wrote: post #10

dr_dshiv wrote: post #7

Safe nuclear power needs German engineering.

Seems as though French engineering has been sufficient for nearly half a century now.

On the contrary, our major nuclear R&D company messed up an extension of the Flamanville nuclear plant multiple times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plan...

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#67

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

tscherno wrote: post #30

junon wrote: post #3

I'm a US expat living in Germany, and boy is the anti-nuclear sentiment real here. There have even been fights - physical altercations - between Green Party members at rallies for having differing viewpoints about nuclear. Unfortunately, it seems those who are against are working with very outdated information and 'tropes' w.r.t. nuclear safety and whatnot. Quite unfortunate.

Nuclear was also promoted as save decades before Chernobyl and Fukushima by the lobbies. So is there a guarantee that it is safe this time around?

[deleted]

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#68

Post by sigmoid10 » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

red_trumpet wrote: post #49

fsflover wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is statistically safer than almost anything even if you take Chernobyl and Fukushima into account.

What do you mean by "safer"? Less accidents compared to eg coal plants? No exploding coal plant will render a whole region unlivable for >30 years. Both happened at Tschernobyl and Fukushima.

Coal plants might render the entire planet unlivable within the next century. When weighed against the theoretical worst case impact of climate collapse, the theoretical worst case impact for nuclear power (that is, every single plant exploding and contaminating a 30 mile radius) is still vanishing by comparison.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#69

Post by itsangaris » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

red_trumpet wrote: post #49

fsflover wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is statistically safer than almost anything even if you take Chernobyl and Fukushima into account.

What do you mean by "safer"? Less accidents compared to eg coal plants? No exploding coal plant will render a whole region unlivable for >30 years. Both happened at Tschernobyl and Fukushima.

Checkout deaths per capita statistics

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-energy-p...

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#70

Post by Ericson2314 » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

tscherno wrote: post #30

junon wrote: post #3

I'm a US expat living in Germany, and boy is the anti-nuclear sentiment real here. There have even been fights - physical altercations - between Green Party members at rallies for having differing viewpoints about nuclear. Unfortunately, it seems those who are against are working with very outdated information and 'tropes' w.r.t. nuclear safety and whatnot. Quite unfortunate.

Nuclear was also promoted as save decades before Chernobyl and Fukushima by the lobbies. So is there a guarantee that it is safe this time around?

To a first approximation, Fukushima did not cause any harm. I view the plant iself as a success story, given ancient reactor design etc. etc.

I think a lot of half-paying-attention people confused the reactor and the tsunami. Of course the news coverage and in-hindsight-unnecessary evacuation didn't help either.