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Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#91

Post by garganzol »

ike77 wrote: post #88

The major issue with this paper and this protocol is that it is not reproducible. As the protocol is not accessible / published, we cannot determine how the difference in the set of measures between participants were determined and as such no researcher can independently replicate this study. This is why those licensed diet / lifestyle change are never science: by definition. Even if they actually produce the desired…

> The major issue with this paper and this protocol is that it is not reproducible.

Sorry, such claim is a pure bullshit. It is reproducible, even the parts of the suggested treatment lead to significant improvements in quality of life for affected patients.

What we have here is: 1) the paper has some claims 2) it has weak theoretical coverage 3) it does not perform orthogonal hypothesis validation (validating each parameter in isolation) 4) the size of trial is small

Plus some political plays between scientific society participants.

But it is far from non-reproducible. There are a few people in the field who had big successes with similar therapies. (Dr. Derrick Lonsdale)

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#92

Post by prepend »

garganzol wrote: post #91
ike77 wrote: post #88

The major issue with this paper and this protocol is that it is not reproducible. As the protocol is not accessible / published, we cannot determine how the difference in the set of measures between participants were determined and as such no researcher can independently replicate this study. This is why those licensed diet / lifestyle change are never science: by definition. Even if they actually produce the desired…

> The major issue with this paper and this protocol is that it is not reproducible. Sorry, such claim is a pure bullshit. It is reproducible, even the parts of the suggested treatment lead to significant improvements in quality of life for affected patients. What we have here is: 1) the paper has some claims 2) it has weak theoretical coverage 3) it does not perform orthogonal hypothesis validation (validating each p…

The treatment varies for the patients. How would someone reproduce treatments if they don’t know how the particular elements are selected?

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#93

Post by rudin »

jasonhansel wrote: post #53

A thorough debunking of this protocol from The Lancet: https://sci-hub.se/downloads/2020-04-23/63/10.1016@S1474-442... A few quotes: > Despite the certainty inferred by the book’s subtitle, there is no published study that tests or proves the hypothesis that the Bredesen protocol can prevent and reverse cognitive decline. > Readers are informed that participants with subjective cognitive impairment or mild cognitive…

> however, the authors do not disclose any conflicts of interest in their scientific reports

I find it amusing the Lancet complains about this considering Peter Daszak's et al covid origins letter was published without disclosing conflicts of interest.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#94

Post by Earw0rm »

ALittleLight wrote: post #49
nostrebored wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American culture is staggeringly unhealthy. Denying this is impossible.

I think it is pretty easy to deny. The CDC breaks out obesity by demographics[1]. White adults have an obesity rate of ~29%. This is the same as other predominantly white/Anglo countries like Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom[2]. Maybe 29% is staggeringly unhealthy, but it isn't American culture to be that overweight. Being overweight is fairly widespread and not unique to America. Probably it has more to do…

The UK is not a good yardstick to judge healthy weight by. High levels of overweight here among all races (also, a lot of UK TV drama portrays the UK as a lot whiter than it actually is - our major cities & more modern towns are as ethnically diverse as the US equivalent). However, there's less extreme obesity here - likely as portion sizes tend to be smaller (soda cups larger than 20oz are a rarity, for example).

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#95

Post by Earw0rm »

kiba wrote: post #81
nostrebored wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've linked me a list that shows the US nearly in the top 5% of the world for obesity and claimed that we're not unhealthy. Also the implication that white people are somehow genetically predisposed to obesity is strange, with plenty of countries existing as counterexamples. You've listed the obesity rate, not the rate of people who are overweight. Beyond that, you haven't limited to adults. According to the CDC [1…

I would contend that physical activity is probably not a large determinant of weight, although physical activity is an important determinant of health.

Yes and no.. on a strict thermodynamics basis, it's not. If you're say 30lbs overweight (i.e. some, but not much), straight up burning that is going to require considerable patience and discipline to not destroy your body in the process. Each lb of fat is - very roughly - equivalent to running a marathon.

However, being physically active makes you more aware and mindful of the input side of the equation; building muscle mass, cardiovascular fitness and endurance in turn improves your metabolic ability to burn calories. So it's absolutely part of the picture. "The Miracle Pill" by Peter Walker is an excellent introduction to the topic.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#96

Post by Earw0rm »

catlikesshrimp wrote: post #47
wawayanda wrote: post #6

Maybe I'm a cynic but it strains credulity that the miracle cure is also a laundry list of fad health trends from the the last decade. Gluten free, intermittent fasting, yoga, melatonin, probiotics, etc etc

Gluten free is not snake oil.... if you have a Immune Celiac disease. Melatonin helps with sleep disorders... for people with sleep disorders. There is a synthetic analog called Ramelteon. Intermitent fasting has curious effects on insulin resistance, but not clinically relevant. Probiotics reduce incidence and severity of traveler's diarrhea... for travelers. It has been comercially available for a while. Like Iverm…

Re intermittent fasting - "not clinically relevant" in that its effect on insulin in itself isn't relevant, or that insulin resistance itself doesn't have a clinically significant relationship to dementia?

I'm not a faster, don't have a dog in this fight, just curious as have seen a few papers & articles in recent years that seem to suggest a relationship between T2D / metabolic syndrome and dementia, but these may have since been debunked?

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#97

Post by [deleted] »

knaik94 wrote: post #61
jasonhansel wrote: post #53

A thorough debunking of this protocol from The Lancet: https://sci-hub.se/downloads/2020-04-23/63/10.1016@S1474-442... A few quotes: > Despite the certainty inferred by the book’s subtitle, there is no published study that tests or proves the hypothesis that the Bredesen protocol can prevent and reverse cognitive decline. > Readers are informed that participants with subjective cognitive impairment or mild cognitive…

While I appreciate the sci-hub link, the author manuscript can also be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7377549/ which I think should be encouraged over sci-hub. I love sci-hub and understands its necessity but my cursory look through saw now difference in text or tables provided.

[deleted]

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#98

Post by tgb »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #87
knaik94 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I appreciate the sci-hub link, the author manuscript can also be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7377549/ which I think should be encouraged over sci-hub. I love sci-hub and understands its necessity but my cursory look through saw now difference in text or tables provided.

> the author manuscript can also be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7377549/ which I think should be encouraged over sci-hub. Why? Which one has better policies?

PMC is where papers go that are required to be open access due to funding or chosen to be open access in the life sciences, generally speaking. It's the official place for these and a legal copy. Sci-hub generally isn't. If you support Sci-hub you might as well save them the bandwidth for serving papers that are genuinely open access. And supporting PMC is good to support the further expansion of actually open access papers and the funding of them.

PMC also makes everything uniformly formatted which is often a benefit, though sometimes equations can be worse.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#99

Post by adolph »

themodelplumber wrote: post #31
adolph wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every problem is a solution in disguise: start a good food diet plan—people will certainly buy that.

lol. A tangent, but it so happens that my dad literally tried that because he hated CICO with a passion. An undiagnosed genetic condition took his life (this is a long time ago) before he could publish his book.

I'm sorry for your loss and for the loss of his effort (presuming you or another heir have not taken up the reins of his intellectual property).

Another step to consider in lateral thinking about (personal diet -> diet book) is the marketing of such. Instead of allowing it on the marketplace, it could be sold by word of mouth in the manner of multilevel marketing. Many MLM systems act as giant siphons for unethical people. I wonder if a forking blockchain could act as method to promote honest transparency, where each level of organization becomes a fork.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#100

Post by artfulhippo »

ALittleLight wrote: post #72
artfulhippo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to edit this comment. It reads as though you don't think Hispanics or Blacks count as American. I don't think you intend to express this racist sentiment, but it's easily inferred from the text as written.

I don't see how that sentiment can be read into what I wrote. I looked at three racial groups in America and observed they had different obesity rates. In abstract terms - "You think this quality is specific to the whole. If you divide the whole into three parts you can see the quality differs between the parts. This implies the quality is not specific to the whole." To take that claim and infer that I mean to sugges…

There were 3 different responses that read your post similarly, as though the higher levels of obesity among Hispanic and Black people are unrelated to American culture, as though it doesn't matter what the rates of obesity are among people who aren't White.

I suppose the reason why some bristle at your partitioning of American obesity rates into racial groups is that it's unclear that it's particularly relevant. Obesity varies by income, urban/suburban/rural-ness, red state/blue state, and more.

Any of these dimensions could be used to partition America into tranches. Then, throw out the bottom tranches. Then, say that America isn't especially unhealthy.

Imagine person A says: There's an epidemic of gun violence in America.

Person B responds: No. Just ignore the urban gang violence, the mentally ill mass shooters, and the suicides. It turns out that among mentally stable Whites, America isn't that violent.

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