Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths • Hacker News Board

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#591

Post by rootusrootus » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #356

How about the biggest dishonesty - lack of admission that not everyone is at the same risk and that lockdowns have significant irreversible costs for low risk individuals and for society? Young children are not getting critical development years back. Healthy 20 somethings only have limited time to date, party and have fun before being saddled with adult responsibilities forever. Most of shattered local businesses ar…

My goodness, what a selfish take. God forbid 20 somethings miss out on some party time. Meanwhile, people who need medical care (many of them not elderly) can't get it because the hospitals are choked with covid patients.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#592

Post by autoexec » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #585

autoexec wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, that subreddit has convinced some people to get vaccinated. Otherwise it's basically https://old.reddit.com/r/leopardsatemyface (covid edition) with a lot of venting frustration at folks who willfully spread the virus and the misinformation that keeps it spreading.

The success cases I've seen were people talking to their family members, which is a reasonable approach. The subreddit itself with some of the hateful "these people deserve to die" kind of comments is actively harmful.

Plenty changed their mind due to seeing the subreddit. You can find a bunch by searching it for "IPA" and the twitter account https://twitter.com/YassIPAqueen shares a bunch as well.

I don't think the hateful comments are the reason people are changing their minds though. I think it's just seeing example after example of people who think like they do facing the consequences of their actions which really drives home the point. On the plus side, I think some of the outrage over the tone has gotten people to check the place out when they might not have otherwise. I wouldn't recommend the tactic for general public outreach but it does seem to work for a certain segment of the population and we're at the point now where people are trying everything they can think of. I thought the "funeral home" ad was an inspired idea https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/21/us/covid-vaccine-billboar...

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#593

Post by clairity » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:28 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #523

clairity wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'just follow the rules'... that's exactly how we get the blind unreasonableness we're seeing everywhere. you need to examine your assumption that masks are doing anything at all in most common situations, and then consider what's actually reasonable vs. what you've rationalized yourself into. humility is missing in your thrust to convince others of your correctness.

Unless I'm a qualified medical researcher, how exactly am I supposed to "examine my assumption?"

exactly how you form opinions everyday without having deep knowledge of a given domain. perhaps also read up on the appeal to authority fallacy[0].

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#594

Post by supertrope » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:28 AM UTC

lamontcg wrote: post #111

ISL wrote: post #41

From CDC's Crisis and Emergency Risk Communication (2018): 1. Be First 2. Be Right. 3. Be Credible. 4. Express Empathy. 5. Promote Action. 6. Show Respect. https://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/CERC_Introduction.pdf https://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/manual/index.asp

The big problem is what to do when "Be Right" is vague because information is poor and you're dealing with a society where black and white thinking is rampant. Combined with a largely complete lack of understanding of the actual messiness of the scientific method.

http://phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#595

Post by iammisc » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:32 AM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #473

iammisc wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the inception of the FDA, when else have state governments independently verified drugs like this? It is clearly a signal that one ought not to trust the FDA. Is it any surprise that large cohorts of the democratic party (namely, their non-white cohorts) do not want to get the drug? I am not surprised. > "Get the shot if you want to." That is exactly what any sane person should say. Trump is pro-vaccine. He has…

I think you make a good point here that someone can be pro-vaccine while being against a mandate. I hadn't thought of it that way. I don't really see many Republicans going out of their way recommending vaccines though, either. Trump got his in secret initially.

Except Trump is constantly on conservative talk radio pushing the vaccine. In fact, sites like Patriots.win are full of Trump supporters who criticize him for pushing the vax. that's like the only thing they don't like about him. Just the other day he was on hannity pushing the vaccine.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#596

Post by iammisc » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:37 AM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #538

nradov wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sensor Mitch McConnell: "I’m glad to share that a few minutes ago, I received a booster vaccination for COVID-19." https://www.mcconnell.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2021/9/mcc... You can find plenty more similar statements by Republicans if you bother to look.

Thanks for sharing this. Looks like Senator John Cornyn and Senator Mitt Romney support the COVID vaccines, too [1]. Good to know. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/politics/gop-covid-vac...

Have you even bothered watching something like fox news before writing your comments. Literally every story about the covid vax they'll talk about how it's important to speak with your doctor because it's an important tool to fight covid but that it's... Up to you

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#597

Post by iammisc » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:38 AM UTC

thomaskcr wrote: post #533

iammisc wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The previous president was and is extremely pro-vaccine. People claim there is a large republican cohort of anti-vax politicians, but there is not. There is a large GOP cohort of anti-vax-mandate politicians, but being against a mandate does not mean being anti vax, unless you're changing the meaning. > If the previous president had not politicized the response to COVID and had simply told his followers to do what th…

Trump literally still calls it the "Trump Vaccine". Also I think people forget how much airtime went into "the vaccine isn't the answer" once Trump started talking about warp speed and the second the election was over it was "the vaccine is the only answer". I think you can blame a lot on Trump and repubs with regards to protocols, level of concern, being actively anti-mask, etc but it takes a very selective memory t…

Correct. This is one of the few areas where trump seemingly disagrees with his own base. Sites like patriots.win (remnants of thedonald) criticize trump for his vax support.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#598

Post by notacoward » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:40 AM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #337

Kind words, but possibly too late, and they won't change anyones mind. Authorities have forfeited public trust by co-ordinating to decieve people, censor them, and then reward others who publicly expressed their contempt for their fellow citizens, just to maintain the leverage. I do not see the path to reconciliation yet. Destroying millions of businesses and then doubling down by attacking guarantees of freedoms (sp…

> impostor syndromes, anxiety, depression, and self loathing

Those insults could equally well be slung at either side, and it would be just as much part of the problem.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#599

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:42 AM UTC

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #525

kyleee wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a governance technique meant to curb excesses of the ruling elite, informed by the historical frequency of ill behaved governing bodies and their miscellaneous maltreatment of the governed

That also causes significant loss of life, both domestically and abroad. The punishment feels, to me, disproportionate to the crime. Things like having permission to shoot someone for breaking into your house.

[deleted]

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#600

Post by Natsu » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:43 AM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #592

Natsu wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The success cases I've seen were people talking to their family members, which is a reasonable approach. The subreddit itself with some of the hateful "these people deserve to die" kind of comments is actively harmful.

Plenty changed their mind due to seeing the subreddit. You can find a bunch by searching it for "IPA" and the twitter account https://twitter.com/YassIPAqueen shares a bunch as well. I don't think the hateful comments are the reason people are changing their minds though. I think it's just seeing example after example of people who think like they do facing the consequences of their actions which really drives home t…

There's a point to sharing how Covid has ruined people's lives, yes. It's the sneering and hate which causes problems.

EDIT: I feel I should clarify that I'm not saying everything on the sub is bad, just the sneering part of it is not good. Sharing stories of how Covid has hurt people is fine and should be done. Cheering for people to die? That's just ghoulish. Yes, I know they're not all doing that, but I've seen more than a few such posts on the front page of Reddit. I don't bother reading that subreddit, though. I don't need other people's stories of how Covid has hurt friends of mine, I have my own.