Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths • Hacker News Board

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#131

Post by SquishyPanda23 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #10

The article is discussing the media and government being intentionally vague or even misinformative because they don't trust the public, but it backfires and causes more distrust. The flip side that wasn't discussed is the belittling and censoring of voices that were skeptical of the narratives, which engendered even more distrust. Their strategy of information control backfired, and they doubled down. Now we've got…

> The flip side that wasn't discussed

This has been discussed ad nauseam. Nature isn't a foreign policy magazine, so it's not really the greatest place for advising how the US should respond to a disinformation campaign. But communicating about healthcare policy seems to be reasonably in its area of expertise.

> The flip side that wasn't discussed is the belittling and censoring of voices that were skeptical of the narratives, which engendered even more distrust

The disinformation campaign was allowed to got on essentially unchecked for a long time because it was politically sensitive to speak publicly about it. As we started to get more confirmation that it was being funded by foreign governments (e.g. [0]), pushback against the disinformation became stronger.

> Their strategy of information control backfired, and they doubled down. Now we've got a huge swath of US citizens that will never take the vaccine.

I am highly skeptical there is any evidence for the causality you are implying here.

A disinformation campaign like this is an attack on Americans by a foreign military. People may reasonably disagree about how it should be handled, but at some point citizens have a right to defend their country from attacks.

[0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign...

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#132

Post by jasonlaramburu » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #10

The article is discussing the media and government being intentionally vague or even misinformative because they don't trust the public, but it backfires and causes more distrust. The flip side that wasn't discussed is the belittling and censoring of voices that were skeptical of the narratives, which engendered even more distrust. Their strategy of information control backfired, and they doubled down. Now we've got…

>censoring of voices that were skeptical of the narratives

Much of what you describe as 'censoring' was focused on stopping the promotion of false cures eg Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, H2O2 nebulization etc. This type of speech is already highly regulated, as most people lack the capacity to 'do their own research' regarding a drug's safety or efficacy.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#133

Post by gravity13 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

complianceowl wrote: post #123

betterunix2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is not what causes large numbers of US citizens to refuse this vaccine. If the Republicans in leadership positions took this seriously from the start and did not go around casting doubt on vaccination far more people would get the vaccine. If the previous president had not politicized the response to COVID and had simply told his followers to do what the CDC says we would have many millions more people get…

Your partisan comments are so toxic. Try making your point without spewing that Facebook garbage around here.

Is it really partisan to point out that Republicans took anti-vaxxing to be practically their identifying feature?

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#134

Post by greenail » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

betterunix2 wrote: post #106

colordrops wrote: post #10

The article is discussing the media and government being intentionally vague or even misinformative because they don't trust the public, but it backfires and causes more distrust. The flip side that wasn't discussed is the belittling and censoring of voices that were skeptical of the narratives, which engendered even more distrust. Their strategy of information control backfired, and they doubled down. Now we've got…

Censorship is not what causes large numbers of US citizens to refuse this vaccine. If the Republicans in leadership positions took this seriously from the start and did not go around casting doubt on vaccination far more people would get the vaccine. If the previous president had not politicized the response to COVID and had simply told his followers to do what the CDC says we would have many millions more people get…

You are assuming "they" trust the Republican leadership. this Gallup poll says only 12% of Americans trust congress. https://news.gallup.com/poll/352316/americans-confidence-maj... Lots of other interesting tidbits about trust in there...

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#135

Post by 8eye » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

betterunix2 wrote: post #106

colordrops wrote: post #10

The article is discussing the media and government being intentionally vague or even misinformative because they don't trust the public, but it backfires and causes more distrust. The flip side that wasn't discussed is the belittling and censoring of voices that were skeptical of the narratives, which engendered even more distrust. Their strategy of information control backfired, and they doubled down. Now we've got…

Censorship is not what causes large numbers of US citizens to refuse this vaccine. If the Republicans in leadership positions took this seriously from the start and did not go around casting doubt on vaccination far more people would get the vaccine. If the previous president had not politicized the response to COVID and had simply told his followers to do what the CDC says we would have many millions more people get…

no disrespect but i know plenty of liberals who will not get the vaccine. the media turned it into a bi-partisan issue when in all actuality it was a government handling issue in which the rest were used as scapegoats. you remember that they gave themselves raises while the rest of us were told not to go into work. which obviously we are gonna listen if we believe that covid is as dangerous as the scientist were saying, the main issue and the reason why blockchain (primary crypto) technology took last year was because of the censorship issues. people do not want amazon to shut down a website because it disagrees with their narrative, they don’t want facebook, reddit or payment processors shutting things down for those same reasons. so the push towards even more decentralizing is going to happen. but to clear things up, this is decentralized together, not the traditional sense of decentralization.

you cannot censor someone you disagree with and expect them to be okay with it. you make them a slave to your narrative, and if they become slaves, they will push to make you a slave as well by whatever means necessary. see texas abortion bans. it’s what Gandhi said, “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind” or a more modern version would be “that which we resist, persist”. this is common knowledge, when push comes to shove, the shoved push back. but the problem is, we end up in a loop, where both parties lose more and more of their civil liberties to PWN their perceived enemy. it’s odd that a lot of adults don’t understand this basic concept.

down vote all you want, it doesn’t make it any less true

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#136

Post by Loughla » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

mmmpop wrote: post #87

MattGaiser wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how can you--with a straight face--pretend that their ability to pick leaders or vote on actual issues is a correct way to run a country?" By arguing that the other options are worse. Democracy and the separation of powers do not result in great decision making. But it also serves as a significant barrier against absolutely horrible decision making, placing it above the other choices.

What separation of power? The country is run by executive fiat and every 4 years the law of the land takes an about face when the next guy comes along to rip up the old guy's diktats. The US legislative branch is kabuki theater and the judicial branch is disgustingly partisan.

That is really flippant and cynical sounding, but you're right. Seriously. What was the last, actual, substantive piece of legislation to come out of the legislature?

I work in higher education, and a new higher education act has been just over the horizon since what, 1999? Nothing changes, except that which can be changed via executive order, or can be sued and changed in well-established and forecasted voting patterns via the judiciary.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#137

Post by WhisperingShiba » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

jjwiseman wrote: post #65

WhisperingShiba wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And thats a good thing too. Don't reward poor behavior with compliance.

That's got real "I'm not taking the safe, free, incredibly effective vaccine to own the libs" energy.

I knew it was controversial when I posted it, and I know this comment will be too. That's not my energy at all, but I do think poor behaviors yield rightfully earned distrust and consequences.

I was 100% on board with at home testing every 3 days schemes, mask wearing (even though I doubt the efficacy of most masks), but having compulsory medical procedures with a relatively untested, proprietary technology is where I draw the line.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#138

Post by takeda » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

complianceowl wrote: post #123

betterunix2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is not what causes large numbers of US citizens to refuse this vaccine. If the Republicans in leadership positions took this seriously from the start and did not go around casting doubt on vaccination far more people would get the vaccine. If the previous president had not politicized the response to COVID and had simply told his followers to do what the CDC says we would have many millions more people get…

Your partisan comments are so toxic. Try making your point without spewing that Facebook garbage around here.

The previous administration made this political, and the pandora's box already have been opened. People were swearing they won't take vaccine, before it was even available.

Look at countries where pandemic is not political.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#139

Post by specialist » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

OC cites Denmark as role model.

What's their citizen's level of trust in their institutions?

Does Denmark have a thriving media ecosystem profiting from inciting distrust, outage, division?

For the US, UK, Aus, I cannot imagine any increase in collectivism, social trust, esteem for the greater good while Murdock, Koch, Zuck, Dorsey, and so many others, remain utterly opposed.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#140

Post by gojomo » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

angelzen wrote: post #108

gojomo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Fauci in early March 2020 mocking the idea of people changing their travel plans as an overreaction. Also Fauci shooting-down lab-origin theories in public, while his private emails – still heavily redacted! – imply contemporaneous discussion of such an origin as a serious possibility. Also Fauci misestimating a vaccine as at least a year and half away. Also Fauci helping to fluff Trump's lowball estimates of th…

Whatever you think of Fauci, he's amazingly well connected in elite circles. To the point he has people making fawning movies about his life and career. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fauci

Indeed, Fauci has the magic touch of the 'cooler', the person in a con who keeps the mark from getting angry.

Everything Fauci's said, at every phase of this pandemic, has been optimized not to save lives or be truthful, but to excuse whatever actions, or inactions, the federal government has taken as "the best possible at the time". The doctor schtick, plus the gravelly NYC accent, is a powerful combo. There's a reason he's the highest-paid employee in the whole federal government!