Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance • Hacker News Board

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#241

Post by throwawaythekey » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

caf wrote: post #225

0xy wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In regards to metadata retention, the shadow Comms Minister at the time outright said Labor had no plans to amend or repeal the legislation if elected. I don't buy this "they're secretly anti-surveillance!" line. They are complicit. It's also puzzling how you imply that amending these bills would fix them. As if one more check and balance would make them not a horrific disaster. In fact, Labor's "amendments" to "fix"…

The ALP were in government for 6 years between 2007 and 2013. What bills like this did they pass when they were in charge? I don't imply that "amending the bills would fix them". I am pointing out that the Government rejected all other input on these bills, so they cannot be meaningfully described as "bipartisan". Implying they should trash fundamental principles by voting for this stuff just to cling to power is pre…

What do you believe is the role of the opposition if not to oppose/raise awareness about contentious legislation?

By definition they represent the minority (or else they would be the government) so almost any action they take will be "quixotic".

To me the fundamental job of the opposition is to point out the failures of the government and paint alternative paths forward. The opposition can move the public sentiment and there are enough poll watchers in the government to respond to pressures.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#242

Post by shakna » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #89

stephen_g wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or with the Access and Disrupt bill, it’s no longer much of a stretch to ‘add and modify’ some illegal material onto your computers and devices…

Doesn't that obviously fall under entrapment?

How would you know it occurred? The approval system for this is secret. It would require that Signals actively come forward and say that they did this, when some other government body finds the material and charges you with a crime.

You would need to both know it happened, and be able to prove it happened, and the usual targets for something like this (journalists) can usually only suspect the former at most.

It's one of the most dystopian laws I've ever seen.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#243

Post by throwawaythekey » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

cheesecake_luvr wrote: post #51

hulahoof wrote: post #35

The problem is that it is very easy to have a decent life here in Australia. We have never had to feel the full force of the repercussions of our voting or policies and as such there is an apathy towards the direction of government policies, at least within my age group - "I don't care they can have my meme's" or some variation of "I have nothing to hide" is the most common attitude. Unfortunately, by the time the ef…

If you have good, progressive ideas and have time and energy, run for parliament. If Hanson, Katter, Christensen and all the other useless junk can get in, you have a chance. We do need a real progressive alternative in politics. Greens are good, but we need more.

> Hanson, Katter, Christensen and all the other useless junk

Are further on the freedom spectrum than the typical liberal or labour party member. In cases like these they are allies!

It's important to realize that a large number of Australians will never vote for the greens or other progressives (for both fair and unfair reasons). We can work together on issues we agree on.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#244

Post by swader999 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #103

hresvelgr wrote: post #21

To anyone not from Australia or not across this, currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data. They still need a warrant but can hack accounts in advance of a warrant, provided they have "reasonable suspicion" that the person they are hacking is committing a crime. There is also no recourse if the warrant is denied and they have already hacked the accounts of the person in s…

Really makes you wonder what the end-goal actually is for these craven politicians.

An occupying hostile force could have a much easier time controlling the local population if they had all this data on everyone. I think that's the real risk.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#245

Post by throwawaythekey » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

ryan-allen wrote: post #199

taitems wrote: post #64

Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. The pearl clutching "Save Australia" protests were good for a chuckle[1], but are also accompanied by people advocating we rise up and murder our police[2]? When Florida has 50x the per capita death rate than that of Australia, it's pretty clear that the US chose liberty AND death[3].…

> and my parents are alive. It was a hard trade off but a good trade off. I'll be interested to see what the sentiment is going to be 12 months from now here with regards to that.

> It was a hard trade off but a good trade off

Speak for yourself! It's just another thing to add to the long list of inter generational thefts.

One estimate I saw here earlier in the pandemic suggested it takes 50 person months of lockdown to save one person month of life. Not sure if those numbers have been updated but when I am elderly I hope that I don't enforce that upon others.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#246

Post by paranoidrobot » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

CountDrewku wrote: post #234

paranoidrobot wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that when you make protests illegal and meet them with riot police You've got that arse-about. They were met with regular uniformed police, like in the BLM protests that happened multiple times in the last 12-18 months. The BLM protesters managed to remain peaceful, didn't assault reporters, bystanders, or police, and didn't damage property. They protested, and then dispersed on their own. All while…

>The BLM protesters managed to remain peaceful, didn't assault reporters, bystanders, or police, and didn't damage property. They protested, and then dispersed on their own. Ummm no that's just false. You can easily search the amount of damage caused by those "protests". There were billions of dollars in property damage. https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a4... https://nypost.com/2020/09/05/bla…

The context here is in Australia.

The links you provider are all about the US.

The Australian BLM protests remained peaceful.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#247

Post by aunty_helen » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

hulahoof wrote: post #35

The problem is that it is very easy to have a decent life here in Australia. We have never had to feel the full force of the repercussions of our voting or policies and as such there is an apathy towards the direction of government policies, at least within my age group - "I don't care they can have my meme's" or some variation of "I have nothing to hide" is the most common attitude. Unfortunately, by the time the ef…

>We have never had to feel the full force of the repercussions of our voting or policies

I would suggest that the restrictions on Australians being able to _leave_ the country has been a direct result of their poor voting choices. However tying the two together seems to approach conspiracy theory level of thinking.

I'm not sure if it's the same in Australia, but in NZ there's another saying that really kills me as it deflates any conversation, "if you don't like it you can leave"

Honestly, the drive to have a better country for all left a long time ago. Everyone seems to just want what's better for themselves and for the richer people that they want to one day be.

It has been 80 years since the ANZACs actually had to fight off forces like this. We've had a good run but unfortunately we need to get ready to gear up again... I just never thought it would be the tradies out protesting

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#248

Post by colejohnson66 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #86

taitems wrote: post #64

Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. The pearl clutching "Save Australia" protests were good for a chuckle[1], but are also accompanied by people advocating we rise up and murder our police[2]? When Florida has 50x the per capita death rate than that of Australia, it's pretty clear that the US chose liberty AND death[3].…

Per my other comment, this is one of the tyrannical neighbors that wants to control you. Should he / she really have a say in what you are able to do? I find the idea horrifying.

Your liberties end where they affect someone else. It’s why we have laws. You’re free to not get vaccinated and house up in your home and never leave. But once you go into public, your sickness affects other people, and those people can die.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#249

Post by throwawaythekey » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

paranoidrobot wrote: post #73

AndrewBissell wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will the Australian state's vaccination targets be met without maintaining the restrictions which are used to coerce people into getting vaccinated? Things might be somewhat relaxed by December just because it's summer in Australia, but I have a hard time seeing you go the way of "just live with it like the flu" like Denmark or Singapore over the long term.

Australia has a traditionally high rate of vaccination. The biggest problems are a huge focus on the risks of AstraZeneca, and the overall lack of availability of Vaccines. The vaccine rollout is progressing well, despite the rocky start and general fuckups by the federal government. We're on track for 70% double-dosed by 24th of October, and 80% by 7th of November[1]. Those are the two major figures for rolling-back…

Coercion might not be required, but it is certainly being used (at least in victoria). With large numbers of low risk citizens being told they need to choose between getting the vaccine and their job.

> An extremely long list of “authorised workers” are now required to be vaccinated, including marriage celebrants, personal trainers, emergency service workers, public sector employees, religious workers, and many others. All authorised workers who do not comply with the vaccination requirement will not be permitted to attend their place of employment but will have to work from home or lose their jobs.

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/human-rights-and-mandatory-c...

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#250

Post by AlexandrB » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

BloominOnion wrote: post #45

I'm becoming more and more despondent by the day here. I'll preface this with, I chose to be vaccinated - I believe the science, however... I watch people allow the Government and Corporations infringe on peoples body autonomy through mandatory vaccination. If you don't received a vaccine by a certain date - you'll lose your right to work in essential industries (it's a lot broader than just aged care or health care)…

Haven't mandatory vaccinations been law for at least a decade now? Except it was for kids if they want to go to public school/day care[1]. I find it funny that most people did not bat an eye at this until it became mandatory for adults and now I see hyperbolic language about a creeping police state.

Oh yeah, and there's also this[2]:

> In an effort to boost vaccination rates in Australia, the Australian government has decided that starting on 1 January 2016, certain benefits (such as the universal "Family Allowance" welfare payments for parents of children) will no longer be available for conscientious objectors of vaccination; those with medical grounds for not vaccinating will continue to receive such benefits.

Again, it seems like it was fine to deny welfare benefits for those without vaccination. But when it becomes mandatory for the more privileged classes there's a sudden moral panic.

[1] https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/immunisation/Pages/childcare_q...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy#Australia