Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed • Hacker News Board

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#591

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #312

baumy wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the choice is between 3.5 million dead, and the rise of authoritarianism and censorship, then yes the former is much less tragic than the latter and therefore the more acceptable option. And that's before taking into account that the survival rate is quite a bit higher than 99%, so it won't be 3.5 million dead. And also before taking into account that the vast majority of the dead will be the very old, and people…

You're willing to sacrifice people that you consider "expendable", because you think vaccination and masks are more dangerous than a highly infectious disease with long-lasting detrimental health consequences even for survivors. Such a severe lack of empathy is disturbing. > the vast majority of the dead will be the very old, and people who took extraordinarily poor care of their health. This is incorrect, the Delta…

Scandinavians countries just suspended Moderna for kids.

But keep ranting how the science is _settled_ and everyone just needs to fall in line. Give me a break.

As for your lame "lack of empathy" argument - the only way for an unvaccinated person to be a risk to anyone else with COVID is if they are symptomaic - i.e. if they have a fever. However, as a vaccinated person not only can you have COVID, you can be shedding (spreading) it without any way of anyone around you knowing unless you have been recently tested.

That's what's beyond crazy - the vaccinated represent a bigger threat for covert spreading than the unvaccinated! An utter 180 from the popular narrative.

So yeah, keep on your high horse about empathy, denial, etc. At this point there is very little science in these discussions - you are espousing dogma and propaganda.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#592

Post by syshum » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #494

syshum wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very weak rebuttal and does nothing to address that fact that risk from COVID once you are vaccinated falls below the other accepted risks of society. Care to address that or do you just want to keep building strawmen?

> once you are vaccinated Again, this is fairly key. A large portion of the country is not yet eligible for the vaccines at this time. > That is a very weak rebuttal That is a very weak rebuttal.

2 Points

1. Vaccinated people still spread covid, Vaccination primary effect makes a person asymptomatic, this has been proven.

2. "Large portion" is false, it is children under 12, who have a lower chance of serious illness than a vaccinated person. That said if you as a parent feel that risk to do high then you as a parent can take measures to ensure you children only come in contact with vaccinated person, this however does not mean you can impose that desire via government. To be clear I am fine with parents advocating business require vaccinations of their own business policy, I am not fine with government telling a Bar that is for adults they also must require vaccinations. Government mandates bad, private business choices good.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#593

Post by hef19898 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #586

WalterBright wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've followed many 737MAX threads on HN, and they sure did dismiss this issue. It was always "why didn't they design a whole new airplane from the ground up". > why you’d prioritize that over the aircraft’s ability to stay in the air. This is an egregious misunderstanding. There was nothing wrong with the purpose of the the MCAS system nor the concept of it. What went wrong was its failure to follow the dual path des…

IIRC a few 737MAXs fell out of the sky. Clearly there being nothing wrong with the purpose nor concept of MCAS wasn't sufficient to keep the airplane from crashing.

MCAS in itself doesn't seem to have been the problem. The fact that MCAS relied on a single sensor (no idea how that got certified in the first place) and that pilot were not aware of MCAS and how it worked were the problems. The latter was due to Boeing trying to avoid re-training and re-certification of air crew.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#594

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

MattRix wrote: post #428

busymom0 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: your CDC link is outdated. It uses data from December 13, 2020 to April 10, 2021. That’s ancient and even before delta was around. The second link also doesn’t use delta data. Look at more newer data or just look at Singapore, Israel, Iceland. That proves my point. Your last statement shows you aren’t interested in this honestly because you are more interested in virtue signalling and claiming moral superiority…

What’s wrong with people getting vaccinations every 6 months until Covid isn’t an issue? It only takes a few minutes, it’s hardly a big deal. I’m not sure what your Ontario stats have to do with anything.

Have you been looking at the VAERS database and the spike since the emergency authorized vaccines were issued? You want to keep those spikes going every six months?

And what makes you think it will only be every six months. COVID viruses are the family that contains the common cold. Why have we never tried to vaccinate for the common cold? It mutates too fast and too often!

You aren't going to shelter in place or vaccine away this virus. It's here, it's a permanent part of our existence and we better figure out more sane ways to deal with it that don't also destroy the economies of the world.

Sweden never locked down - their curves match pretty much everyone else. New Zealand finally gave up on their extreme quarantine policy and admitted that the virus is there too. So much for being the darling for how to handle the virus and the rest of the world being idiots.

Ugh.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#595

Post by brendoelfrendo » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

proc0 wrote: post #568

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any indication that a greater than normal number of people are sick? The only people talking about a sickout that I can see are the ones who are congratulating the pilots on their sickout without any confirmation that there’s actually a sickout.

> Is there any indication that a greater than normal number of people are sick? Aren't flights being cancelled? I guess people are just not showing up or something? I asked that question because if there isn't a protest then what? Something is being covered up, at least.

Lol, no, this started back in June; Southwest cancelled 2600 flights during that month and delayed something like 40% of its flights. It's a combination of several unrelated delays (weather, ATC staffing, military exercise) propagating back through the system and flight crews timing out before they can get to their final destination. It takes days if not longer for them to resolve these issues. There's no coverup; Southwest is just stretched too thin and has let their business get too fragile. And they're not alone: I feel like no one remembers American, United and Spirit all struggling with mass cancellations over the summer.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#596

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #348

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "99% survival rate" 1% dead means around 3.5 million dead, in the US alone. Do you consider that acceptable?

Luckily 1% IFR is an over-estimate by around 10x, may 5x if you use pessimistic assumptions, especially now with the vaccines. UK govt admitted in Parliament a few weeks ago that IFR is now Moreover that number assumes everyone will get infected, but there's nothing deep driving that belief. Scientists don't understand to what extent the immune system can recognize and fight viruses based on prior exposure to other s…

Dunno why you are getting downvoted - I've been on dozens of flights from coast to coast in the US during COVID and never contracted it. I'm a routine blood donor and have come up negative for COVID every time. I'm not claiming some sort of special invulnerability, just pointing out that I'm either VERY lucky or this thing isn't nearly as transmissible as our darling media is flogging it to be.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#597

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #528

tomohawk wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Have family members in the pilot's union and in the air traffic control union. The White House thinks they can force unilateral changes to the union contracts. If the unions admitted to what was going on, the White House would have more legal authority to intervene more directly with the unions.

> The White House thinks they can force unilateral changes to the union contracts. Well, yes. Contracts can't override Federal regulation. "Sign this contract exempting you from OHSA protections" won't (generally) fly, right?

What federal regulation gives the federal government the magical ability to mandate a medical procedure without consent?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#598

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

crackercrews wrote: post #515

brandmeyer wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On my pilot group's FB page Social media has optimized the process of finding groups of people that think just exactly like you do. The fact that you are listening to one specific echo chamber that feels this way does not tell you that the entire industry feels this way. Consider the following counter-example: United Airlines also has a vaccine mandate, and got well over 99% compliance.

> United Airlines also has a vaccine mandate, and got well over 99% compliance. But how many employees left UA along the way?

Not sure why you are getting downvoted - if you purge the unvaccinated of course the percentage of the remaining employees who are vaccinated is going to go up.

Hell the president was bragging that was exactly how they got to those percentages over the weekend.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#599

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #502

guitarbill wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But once you have had it and survived it, the science shows that you have far better immunity than the vaccine delivers. This isn't clear at all, e.g. "Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination" at https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm... : > Among Kentucky residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, vaccination status of those reinfected during May–June 2021 was…

That is a very small and seemingly cherry picked (by the CDC) study that does not correlate with much larger studies. The study I was referring to came out of Israel, where the vaccination rate is very high and involved far more people. In fact, natural immunity delivered 27x the protection that the vaccine does. https://www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-isra... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2…

>That is a very small and seemingly cherry picked (by the CDC)

And this is also a very significant factor to resistance to the mandates - it's beyond obvious this whole issue is more political than scientific at this point.

Think I'm exaggerating? Good luck finding the actual "approved" vaccine. The only ones that I can find within three states of me are all the emergency use versions - so more games being played. Why would anyone be suspicious when stuff like this is still going on? Yet the suspicious people who would like more information are the irrational ones? Good grief.

Here's a very rational question. This technology has been in development since the late 80's. If it is unquestionably safe, then why haven't any of these manufacturers completed formal FDA approval before now?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#600

Post by EricE » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #305

roenxi wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the specific question that the government is answering is "should these people be employed if they make choices I disagree with". It is more borderline than it might appear at first blush. I'm not sure I can think of a precedent for being so willing to eject that many people from the workforce in such a way.

> should these people be employed if they make choices I disagree with This is a disingenuous way to frame it. The current govt is anti-Nazi, but it's never tried to mandate that all employees found to be Nazis must be fired. The reason vaccines are an issue of employment (only at larger employers, by the way) is that unvaccinated people endanger their coworkers. People have a right to be unvaccinated, and the rest o…

>People have a right to be unvaccinated, and the rest of us have a right to protect ourselves from them.

If your vaccinated and have the protection, what's the real issue?

If you want to go down the whole "protection" rabbit hole - and ostensibly I'm going to assume you mean protection from exposure to the virus, then the vaccinated are far more of a problem. An unvaccinated person can not shed (spread) the virus unless they are symptomatic - ie. have a fever. Checking for a fever is trivial to do in a non-invasive way.

Vaccinated people can not only be carrying but shedding (spreading) the virus while showing zero symptoms. So the only way to tell if a vaccinated person is a potential super spreader is through testing - that is neither as quick or easy as just taking someone's fever.

An utter 180 from your position. If anyone is concerned about protection from exposure, you would be looking at protection from the vaccinated - not the unvaccinated!