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Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

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Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#491

Post by guitarbill »

downandout wrote: post #484
unethical_ban wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are very rare "dangerous" side effects to the vaccines.

There have been ~180 million vaccinations in the US and approximately 16,000 deaths shortly after receiving it, along with over 75,000 hospitalizations [1]. That implies the odds of dying from the vaccine are 1 in 11,250, and odds of serious complications requiring hospitalization are 1 in 2,400. The odds of a healthy 35 year old dying from COVID are 1 in 2,700. So the odds of serious, possibly permanent injury, or d…

> approximately 16,000 deaths shortly after receiving it [...] That implies the odds of dying from the vaccine are 1 in 11,250

No it doesn't. The website you link to even specifically states "Reports are not proof of causality".

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#492

Post by Cederfjard »

syshum wrote: post #469
Cederfjard wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Vaccination is not 100% effective * Vaccinated people do still spread the infection, albeit to a smaller degree * Some people cannot be vaccinated, and for others it's less effective For the above reasons, it's beneficial to me and society at large if as many people as possible are vaccinated.

>>Vaccination is not 100% effective Nothing is, but my risk from COVID post vaccination is less than other society risks we accept as normal risks of living in a free society, for example my risk of dying in an auto accident is many times greater than my risk from COVID post vaccination >> Vaccinated people do still spread the infection, albeit to a smaller degree I am not sure how this statement is relative to quest…

No one has suggested forcibly injecting anyone. But sure, not allowing people who aren’t vaccinated to participate in all facets of society can be construed as a type of force. Unlike you I see that as reasonable.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#493

Post by syshum »

ceejayoz wrote: post #488
syshum wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is both a weak and dangerous argument if you place any value at all on individual freedom. As a vaccinated person I have a MUCH MUCH greater risk of dying in a car accident on the way to the grocery store than I do of contracting a deadly case of COVID. Before the vaccine was widely available you may have had a case but once you become vaccinated your risk level drops to well below other risks we already accept…

Our society has always balanced individual freedoms versus the impacts exercising them have on others. I cannot have murder, child porn, or heroin use be a part of my religious ceremonies. I cannot have libel be a part of my free speech and expression. I cannot be Typhoid Mary and spread disease around. I cannot open a restaurant that skips hand washing. I cannot go to public school unvaccinated for measles and a num…

That is a very weak rebuttal and does nothing to address that fact that risk from COVID once you are vaccinated falls below the other accepted risks of society.

Care to address that or do you just want to keep building strawmen?

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#494

Post by ceejayoz »

syshum wrote: post #493
ceejayoz wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our society has always balanced individual freedoms versus the impacts exercising them have on others. I cannot have murder, child porn, or heroin use be a part of my religious ceremonies. I cannot have libel be a part of my free speech and expression. I cannot be Typhoid Mary and spread disease around. I cannot open a restaurant that skips hand washing. I cannot go to public school unvaccinated for measles and a num…

That is a very weak rebuttal and does nothing to address that fact that risk from COVID once you are vaccinated falls below the other accepted risks of society. Care to address that or do you just want to keep building strawmen?

> once you are vaccinated

Again, this is fairly key. A large portion of the country is not yet eligible for the vaccines at this time.

> That is a very weak rebuttal

That is a very weak rebuttal.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#495

Post by guitarbill »

downandout wrote: post #477
beagle3 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a small correction: natural immunity is not without side effects - it is just that the side effect price of the natural infection is already sunk cost for those who had the disease.

Yes, I should have said “without the additional ” side effects of the vaccine, but I assumed everyone would understand that part of it. But you are right that I should have been more specific, because someone else responded saying that I was overlooking the effects of COVID itself. So apparently not everyone did understand that. People in these debates tend to assume that anyone questioning mandates is automatically…

> But once you have had it and survived it, the science shows that you have far better immunity than the vaccine delivers.

This isn't clear at all, e.g. "Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination" at https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm...:

> Among Kentucky residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, vaccination status of those reinfected during May–June 2021 was compared with that of residents who were not reinfected. In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#496

Post by ssully »

unionemployee wrote: post #429
brandmeyer wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On my pilot group's FB page Social media has optimized the process of finding groups of people that think just exactly like you do. The fact that you are listening to one specific echo chamber that feels this way does not tell you that the entire industry feels this way. Consider the following counter-example: United Airlines also has a vaccine mandate, and got well over 99% compliance.

I’ve been an airline pilot for a long time and work for a large airline. In the US, pilots tend to be quite culturally conservative. It’s not my naive generalization. Yes, if the mandate happens most will get vaccinated, but there will be plenty of kicking and screams leading up to it.

I have a lot of friends in ATC, and it's similar there. It's anecdotal, but I talked to two of them things morning. One said the sickout is indeed real, while the other says it absolute isn't. They are literally on other sides of the country from each other, so idk if it's regional or just bullshit.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#497

Post by downandout »

guitarbill wrote: post #491
downandout wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been ~180 million vaccinations in the US and approximately 16,000 deaths shortly after receiving it, along with over 75,000 hospitalizations [1]. That implies the odds of dying from the vaccine are 1 in 11,250, and odds of serious complications requiring hospitalization are 1 in 2,400. The odds of a healthy 35 year old dying from COVID are 1 in 2,700. So the odds of serious, possibly permanent injury, or d…

> approximately 16,000 deaths shortly after receiving it [...] That implies the odds of dying from the vaccine are 1 in 11,250 No it doesn't. The website you link to even specifically states "Reports are not proof of causality".

Yes, I am aware. However, this is the best data we have. Otherwise healthy people dying or being hospitalized shortly after receiving the vaccine, of internal causes, does not necessarily prove causality but it is certainly an indicator of it. We don’t understand the vaccine well enough to know all of the ways in which it injures people, so we have to go by the numbers. This is why we normally test these things for a decade before approving them.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#498

Post by vdqtp3 »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #482
doctorwho42 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is large due to corporations taking on lean-business models from MBAs over the last decade+. When a business runs lean, it becomes more fragile to disruptions. Unfortunately due to our economic system, there is a semi-regular boon-bust cycle, so if it wasn't COVID, it would have been something else that kicks the stool out from under the legs of these corporations. In the past this wasn't as big as an issue becaus…

> But if its not growing, then it is viewed as failing I’ve only seen this in wealth generation instruments. Outside of those, I haven’t seen much of the “culture“ you’re referring to. In that framing, I think it makes sense and is anything but absurd. The company is dual purpose at this point: part original mission (airline) part communal investment. Being a great airline that is comfortable with its current market…

Take a look at earnings reports...a company that doesn't grow from last quarter is considered a failure. A company that grows but doesn't hit goals from last quarter is considered a failure.

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#499

Post by ceejayoz »

anarticle wrote: post #435
cronix wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this substack[1], it was a pilot walkout/"sickout" due to vaccine mandates. It's actually happening in more companies/industries than widely reported. I imagine it's also picked up steam since last weeks revelation from leaked internal Pfizer emails[2] that they used cells from aborted fetuses while testing the RDNA vaccine (testing - it's not in the vaccine), but have publicly stated otherwise. It was a…

Just to clarify this YouTube link: HEK293 cells are used in TONS of research, yes they are derived from fetal cell lines in the 70s. When I say tons, I mean if you say "HEK cells" to someone who does any cell culture they know what you're talking about. It is completely noncontroversial, and cancer/bioenergetic research utilizes them. I don't appreciate this YouTube channel doing what they are doing, it is pouring fu…

> I don't appreciate this YouTube channel doing what they are doing, it is pouring fuel on a giant nothingburger.

That's their MO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas

Re: Southwest operational meltdown as hundreds of flights canceled or delayed

#500

Post by ceejayoz »

buescher wrote: post #442
SilasX wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, incidentally, there was a hospital that (reportedly) said, "okay sure, if you're swearing off all those other things you can claim a vaccine exemption": https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-...

Many (most?) of those medicines are quite old and were developed before widespread legalization of abortion, let alone use of fetal stem cells in drug development.

Old medicines are still evaluated for ongoing safety profiles, including interactions with new classes of drugs that may come on the market. Users of these medicines benefit from this.

As an example, here's a 2018 study on Tylenol using the HEK 293 line: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29273526/

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