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Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

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Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#91

Post by Gustomaximus »

1) I think a self balancing counter mechanism to improve this (if surveillance efforts continues) is make a rule people have to be informed they were under surveillance or gov hacked 5 years after the fact. With explanation.

This time length shouldn't compromise most investigations. It would raise awareness to over reach, so if a small handful get this it's probably well focused but if ~5% of the country start getting letters, people realise the overreach, it will become discussed and create push back politically.

Shining light on things is often the best solution to government issues.

2) Secondly, I'm seeing strange commentary on this thread and other locations a heap about Australian repression and tyranny type comments. And while there are privacy issues and there has been police overreach in the protests/quarrantine, comments seem way off the mark. I'm not sure if it bots/paid players trying to drive agenda or really skewed views. Some of the language is very properganda like and I've seen many posts on other platforms showing things out date or context clearly aimed to drive emotion. So I'd say fact check and consider context before getting too worked up about Australian issues of late. It's still a great country and not the run for the hills situation some people seem to be pushing.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#92

Post by psychlops »

taitems wrote: post #64

Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. The pearl clutching "Save Australia" protests were good for a chuckle[1], but are also accompanied by people advocating we rise up and murder our police[2]? When Florida has 50x the per capita death rate than that of Australia, it's pretty clear that the US chose liberty AND death[3].…

Pretty sure the primary conversation isn't about now, but the future and more about what your kids inherit. I don't think the 50x metric will stand the test of time, but wish you all the best.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#93

Post by selimthegrim »

6nf wrote: post #56
ntSean wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Melbourne, the most locked down city in the world. We have substantially lower death rates than Florida, which has a comparable population. Florida: 3,600,000 covid cases 56,667 deaths Melbourne: 54,470 covid cases 913 deaths This remains true for the rest of Australia. Unfortunately, we are in a remarkable position compared to many parts of the world.

Florida population is 21 million, Australia is 26 million. AUD 300 billion to save 70,000 lives, that's 4 million dollars per life saved. The median covid death is 85 years old. We spent 4 million dollars to save one 85 year old person for a few more years.

Do Florida and Victoria have similar age structure? Immigration patterns?

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#94

Post by strawhatguy »

ryandrake wrote: post #85
taitems wrote: post #64

Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. The pearl clutching "Save Australia" protests were good for a chuckle[1], but are also accompanied by people advocating we rise up and murder our police[2]? When Florida has 50x the per capita death rate than that of Australia, it's pretty clear that the US chose liberty AND death[3].…

The words “tyranny” and “authoritarian” have become so overused since 2020 it’s almost comical. All over the English speaking world, not just Australia. Every little thing an authority does that someone doesn’t like is now called tyranny. Masks are tyranny. Vaccines are tyranny. Kicking a jerk out of your store is tyranny. The word has been watered down and exaggerated to the point of meaninglessness. After the boy c…

Why, it's almost like said authority ought to do less, and order less, doesn't it? Like people should be asked, rather than told? The nerve!

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#95

Post by clouddrover »

grecy wrote: post #23

I've just returned to Australia after 15 years living all around the world, and I find it all fascinating and I have a bit of perspective on this. The Australian media have a very strong influence on people's lives - they daily create some uproar or other that people get addicted to, wound up about, and then forget. Two weeks ago it was the nuclear sub deal with USA (and dropping France), then it was some state leade…

> My Dad immediately jumped to the conclusion that encrypted communications the police can't read is obviously a bad thing.

Then I think the problem here is your dad, not the media. Your dad's lack of clear thinking or otherwise is his responsibility.

You can't run around in square circles claiming that it's all the media's fault for your dad's supposed wrongthink. There are two possibilities:

1. Your dad is a dumb, unsophisticated, unthinking lump who has no ideas of his own and who is easy for the evil Media to manipulate.

2. This is his genuine opinion.

Either way, he gets to take responsibility for himself. And you get to respect him enough to engage with his point of view rather than invoking The Media as a pantomime villain.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#96

Post by AndrewBissell »

paranoidrobot wrote: post #73
AndrewBissell wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will the Australian state's vaccination targets be met without maintaining the restrictions which are used to coerce people into getting vaccinated? Things might be somewhat relaxed by December just because it's summer in Australia, but I have a hard time seeing you go the way of "just live with it like the flu" like Denmark or Singapore over the long term.

Australia has a traditionally high rate of vaccination. The biggest problems are a huge focus on the risks of AstraZeneca, and the overall lack of availability of Vaccines. The vaccine rollout is progressing well, despite the rocky start and general fuckups by the federal government. We're on track for 70% double-dosed by 24th of October, and 80% by 7th of November[1]. Those are the two major figures for rolling-back…

Singapore hit 85%, opened up, and immediately experienced an explosion in cases. Australia will either have to accept the same outcome or continue lockdowns and quarantines to suppress outbreaks indefinitely.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#97

Post by selimthegrim »

totetsu wrote: post #10
shitloadofbooks wrote: post #5

I don't think there's anything uniquely Australian about this. Australia is "first" because it is being used as the testing ground for this stuff, but the same playbook will be used in other countries in the coming years, especially those in which Murdoch's (a pretty unapologetic authoritarian) influences extend.

Authoritarian Australia.. it's like we're living in an Europa Universalis Mod

Flow my beers (unless you’re Dan Andrews) the policeman said

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#98

Post by [deleted] »

selimthegrim wrote: post #93
6nf wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida population is 21 million, Australia is 26 million. AUD 300 billion to save 70,000 lives, that's 4 million dollars per life saved. The median covid death is 85 years old. We spent 4 million dollars to save one 85 year old person for a few more years.

Do Florida and Victoria have similar age structure? Immigration patterns?

[deleted]

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#99

Post by Guthur »

I don't think it's particularly unique to Australia. I've seen the same thing happening in the UK as well.

I'm currently residing in Australia and it's the same conversation as the UK, no one takes liberty seriously. The inherent trust that the it only affects people that have "done something wrong", of course that's a very nebulous concept.

The US seems to be last place where a significant portion of the population value their liberty and where the worm tongue promises of the state are taken with a healthy bucket of sodium.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#100

Post by calvinmorrison »

paranoidrobot wrote: post #55
chroem- wrote: post #3

It's been an odd experience having a few Australian HN posters attempt to rationalize to me why their police are justified in shooting people who leave their homes with rubber bullets, and why it's normal to be required to take surveillance photos of themselves in their own residences. I guess strict authoritarianism must be accompanied with equally strict media propaganda.

> shooting people who leave their homes with rubber bullets, Talk about misrepresenting facts to mislead. People who were rioting were met with force. These protesters weren't being peaceful, they were attacking camera crews and reporters. They were assaulting police officers. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/21/victo... > it's normal to be required to take surveillance photos of themselves in thei…

That's because 'protesting' is illegal lmao.
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