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China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

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Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#91

Post by pjbeam »

mr_toad wrote: post #84
1ris wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, no private organisation can "recognize" a state. That is a privilege for states. Private organisations can only boycott (non-)states by not doing any business with said (non-)citizens. Why in the world Wikimedia do that, and how? Second, this policy by china is the problem. Not the lack of obedience by the rest of the world.

> First of all, no private organisation can "recognize" a state. That’s not how the CCP sees it. They have threatened hotel chains and airlines that referred to Taiwan as a country.

Early in my career I got in trouble for including Taiwan on a web form country drop down list (not Amazon). Hadn't encountered that until that moment. Was a bit weird.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#92

Post by int_19h »

Supermancho wrote: post #75
aww_dang wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individuals are not the collective. Not only is it inaccurate as a generalization, but it personifies the collective. A nation state is an abstract concept. Politicians and leaders act. Individuals may agree or disagree. Abstractions have no agency. This is most apparent for me in the false narrative of, "China lifted a billion people out of poverty". Unpack that one. This advancement is relative to a largely agraria…

> Individuals are not the collective. Not only is it inaccurate as a generalization, but it personifies the collective. A nation state is an abstract concept. A nation state (which is a political organization) is the way that populations interact on the political stage. A nation state presents representatives which uniformly have a manner of control over the population and the forces (eg economic and/or social and/or…

A nation-state is not the way that populations interact on the political stage, but rather the way the elites that rule those populations do. You're correct in that the elites are who defines what the "nation-state of China" is, but that doesn't mean that they speak for the "people of China".

(It should be noted that this also goes for the vast majority of nation-states.)

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#93

Post by int_19h »

ethbr0 wrote: post #88
int_19h wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this is just one of the many examples of UNSC being broken by design. In a similar vein, US tends to use its veto indiscriminately to cover up for Israel, and Russia does the same for its client states and allies.

That's the entire point of the Security Council -- to allow states with the most powerful militaries and nuclear weapons to exert greater influence. To create another system would be to risk irrelevance due to the mismatch between actual military power and UN power. It sucks when it leads to states using that power, but the alternative is more wars and potentially nuclear weapons use.

That's the entire point of the Security Council veto. Note that there are other, rotating members on it, which do not have the veto power. In principle, all members could be like that.

I understand that UNSC is the way it is because that's the only way to actually get the power players to participate. That doesn't make it any less broken.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#94

Post by tesselator »

twofornone wrote: post #71
unethical_ban wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post is deceptively vague. What "perspective" (dogwhistle for opinion) do you feel Wikipedia isn't validating for you?

I mean this post is literally it. Look at the talk page of literally any remotely politicized article and you will see a consistent, massive power imbalance in one direction, enforced with implicit conflations like the one you're making with your reference to dog whistling. Given the wide range of policies on which the American left and right differ, "perspective" is an appropriate and unloaded term. Perhaps you are…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration went though this.

It's early version were hugely biased, and I was disappointed to see this on Wikipedia. The talk page had the imbalance you describe.

Over time, however, this article has become more objective. This gained me respect for the checks and balances within Wikipedia.

Update: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/104925888... is a recent unfair change.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#95

Post by AussieWog93 »

baybal2 wrote: post #76
chunghuaming wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching James Bond this weekend made me sad. No mention of China at all, as the cause of many geopolitical crisis around the world, as well as the source of atrocious acts against muslims (go check out cnn's china whistlerblower interview recently that detailed the hanging of uighurs and raping of them). If you want a super evil villain, look no further than Xi Jing ping and the CCP, who has threatened literally mos…

The West really, really wants to shut its eyes on China very tight. We need to deny the West this comfort. That's a paradoxal reaction. It's like somebody being raped tries to cover her face to not to see her rapist. Not seeing a rapist doesn't change the ground reality of you still being raped. The correct action is not to use hands to cover your face, but to punch back the assailant.

I don't think it's fair to suggest China is "raping" the West. Hong Kong, maybe, but not the entire democratic world. At least, not yet.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#96

Post by pbhjpbhj »

71a54xd wrote: post #58

The notion of China posturing to defend / support the idea of intellectual property is patently hilarious. Obviously, the core of this is not appeasing to Chinese / CCP censors but the headline is funny nonetheless.

[This post represents my private opinions and is unrelated to my employment.]

It seems like you're trying to be flippantly dismissive, or to just make a joke, but the intent of your 'joke' isn't clear at all. What are you trying to intimate? Chinese companies gain millions of patents each year, in China and elsewhere, so China defending IPR as a concept seems wise. They seem to use a lot of utility patents (I think the USA equivalent is the 'design patent', it covers a product rather than an invention per se).

China as a nominally formerly communist state it makes sense that IPR would be weak in Chinese law [there's a lot to be said on whether the Chinese progress with, for example, 6G phone tech has been accelerated by that approach - which might indicate that the West has things locked down too much and stifles innovation somewhat??]; just like how the full power of IPR goes to the richest companies in USA because of their strong capitalism. China is changing, and whilst they may not enforce IPR in the way many Western Capitalist countries do Chinese organisations still use patents heavily. Indeed the Chinese government have schemes to encourage acquisition of foreign patents.

So, yeah, not sure where you're going with that?

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#97

Post by boomboomsubban »

int_19h wrote: post #87
pessimizer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have North and South Korea because of a US invasion, the massacre of tens of thousands of people in the South with any sort of left/social-liberal sympathies, and a fully fascist government propped up by the US that lasted until the 80s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilminism It's nothing to respect. The US is something to respect, because it's got a lot more economic and military power than poor backwards NK. Thr…

Korean War was a military operation authorized by UN. Calling it a "US invasion" is rather a stretch, especially considering that it was the North's invasion of the South that triggered the war.

It was a US invasion. It was only authorized by the UN because Russia boycotted the UN due to it's refusal to accept China's new government.

The war was started by North Korea, but the US definitely invaded North Korea in the war and preceded to burn down every town in the entire country.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#98

Post by TeMPOraL »

pedrosorio wrote: post #68
satao wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even crazier because when you are not american you realize that Hollywood is also the biggest soft propaganda agency for the USA. When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2? Or about the Guantanamo Bay?

> When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2? Any Russian movies about the US winning the WW2? Naturally each country tells their own narrative. This seems like a silly point to make.

Not so when you consider that Hollywood is pretty much defining the culture for good half of the planet.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#99

Post by TeMPOraL »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #70
satao wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even crazier because when you are not american you realize that Hollywood is also the biggest soft propaganda agency for the USA. When have you seen a movie about the USSR winning the WW2? Or about the Guantanamo Bay?

Enemy at the Gates is pretty good.

The GP asked for movies about winning the WWII, not winning in the WWII. Enemy at the Gates was just a sniper duel movie (a good one, though).

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#100

Post by baybal2 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #95
baybal2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The West really, really wants to shut its eyes on China very tight. We need to deny the West this comfort. That's a paradoxal reaction. It's like somebody being raped tries to cover her face to not to see her rapist. Not seeing a rapist doesn't change the ground reality of you still being raped. The correct action is not to use hands to cover your face, but to punch back the assailant.

I don't think it's fair to suggest China is "raping" the West. Hong Kong, maybe, but not the entire democratic world. At least, not yet.

It is indeed raping the whole free world. It indulges inflicting this humiliation, and seeing the whole world seeing the West being so powerless about it.
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