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China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

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Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#51

China corrupts any global organization it touches.

Yup. Supposedly free american companies are forced to bow down to authoritarian chinese government demands because they can't afford to lose that market. The wonders of globalization.

Imagine what China is gonna do to Apple now that on-device wrongthink scanning is a thing.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 0 clue why in the 1970s we didn't make it a de jure situation, like with Korea, like with Vietnam. China wanted the UN seat, right? Would they really turn that down because the US insisted on saying some shit about Taiwan? When they were kinda broke and caught between us and Soviets? Did the KMT really not want to give up "Republic of China", even if it meant being relegated to non-country status? Does it even…

Back in the 70s, the KMT definitely supported the One China Principle. They were still firmly dreaming about retaking the mainland. Back then the mainland and Taiwan even regularly fired shells at each other, not to actually attack, but as a statement by both sides to foreigners that the China-Taiwan issue is an internal China matter (namely a civil war), and not one of Taiwan being an independent state.

We have North and South Korea when the communist revolution succeeded in the north but not the South. In the U.S., West Virginia split off from Virginia when most of Virginia joined the confederacy but a part didn't.

Civil Wars, partial rebellions, partial revolutions, are one the mechanisms of state formation.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#53

Of course Wikimedia won't take any action to appease this totalitarian nonsense. But, most for-profit companies do exactly that. When was the last time any Hollywood movie or mainstream entertainment mentioned Taiwanese conflict? When do you last remember seeing "Free Tibet"? Or any Tibet? Chinese film censors can apply billions of dollars of pressure, simply to change a single word. Who can withstand that? Wikimedia…

The best model would be the time period from 1910 to 1950 where the US Supreme Court had ruled that motion pictures had no 1st amendment protection. This let states censor and dictate at the same level that China is doing right now.

Productions that wanted access to the entire US market bent to the most restrictive state’s demands.

Did some states occasionally pay to incentivize compliance? Don’t know about that, but the function is largely the same.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#54
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 0 clue why in the 1970s we didn't make it a de jure situation, like with Korea, like with Vietnam. China wanted the UN seat, right? Would they really turn that down because the US insisted on saying some shit about Taiwan? When they were kinda broke and caught between us and Soviets? Did the KMT really not want to give up "Republic of China", even if it meant being relegated to non-country status? Does it even…

The KMT absolutely did not want to give up its title of "Republic of China". It had been only 30 years since the civil war. KMT leadership was still people who had personally fled the mainland in middle age. The president at the time, Jiang Jingguo, was on the young end (he was the son and heir of Jiang Jieshi) - and even he had only arrived in Taiwan at age 39. None of those people had strong local ties, either pers…

> From the US perspective, why would they go out of their way to call Taiwan its own country when neither government, on either side of the Strait, was interested in that?

:) I feel like this the same sort of thinking as tech debt. Names? Who cares! Everyone knows what the situation is on the ground.

In my view, norms have to be actively upheld, even especially if you are on "Team 'rule of law'". If the thing is a state, call it a state dammit! I like this argument because it doesn't rely on "well, you gotta foresee China becoming strong and stuff". No, you don't, just have a principle that de jure and de facto should deviate as little as possible.

I stand by my original analysis that doesn't matter what the KMT thinks, because RoC effectively a client state of the US at the time, with no TSMC to get more leverage, and also that the PRC should be happy enough to get its UN seat. If we wanted to, we could have made this happen, but we are sloppy and we didn't try.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 0 clue why in the 1970s we didn't make it a de jure situation, like with Korea, like with Vietnam. China wanted the UN seat, right? Would they really turn that down because the US insisted on saying some shit about Taiwan? When they were kinda broke and caught between us and Soviets? Did the KMT really not want to give up "Republic of China", even if it meant being relegated to non-country status? Does it even…

> China wanted the UN seat, right? Would they really turn that down because the US insisted on saying some shit about Taiwan? Because the security council seat was for the taking. And ChiComs had a very good memory how the Korean war started.

So if they wanted a seat, and they are weak and Mao is old, then then can deal with it being called Taiwan. They can still stay it's an illegitimate breakway or whatever.

Of course now there is no UN seat to dangle, and they are strong, and like with NK it's a fuck situation of our own procrastination, but then I think it was easy, and we just fucked up.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#56
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the 70s, the KMT definitely supported the One China Principle. They were still firmly dreaming about retaking the mainland. Back then the mainland and Taiwan even regularly fired shells at each other, not to actually attack, but as a statement by both sides to foreigners that the China-Taiwan issue is an internal China matter (namely a civil war), and not one of Taiwan being an independent state.

And it was personal for the KMT! These were people who had been middle-aged, established bureaucrats and generals in China in 1949.

I really made a mistake making my first sentence "did the KMT really?..." Yes, they did, I know that. KMT have always mostly been shitheads.

The more important point is I don't see KMT having any leverage over the US in the 1970s, so it doesn't matter what they think.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#57

Nobody seems to notice that it should not matter at all how accurate exactly the information Wikimedia contains, because it has no relation to the role they can fulfil at WIPO. China blocks the application, citing irrelevant info. Then other countries dismiss those irrelevant accusations as false. It seems the future of WIPO is to become irrelevant UN body.

China does this across the whole UN. You can’t bring your high school club to visit without appeasing the censors, who will check that the school and its clubs have never blogged mentioning Taiwan as anything other than a “province of China.”

China is on the security council so this will never change. The UN will implode first.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/china-makes-sure-everyone-w...

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#59

Of course Wikimedia won't take any action to appease this totalitarian nonsense. But, most for-profit companies do exactly that. When was the last time any Hollywood movie or mainstream entertainment mentioned Taiwanese conflict? When do you last remember seeing "Free Tibet"? Or any Tibet? Chinese film censors can apply billions of dollars of pressure, simply to change a single word. Who can withstand that? Wikimedia…

Watching James Bond this weekend made me sad. No mention of China at all, as the cause of many geopolitical crisis around the world, as well as the source of atrocious acts against muslims (go check out cnn's china whistlerblower interview recently that detailed the hanging of uighurs and raping of them). If you want a super evil villain, look no further than Xi Jing ping and the CCP, who has threatened literally most democracies (nuke Australia/Japan, conquer Taiwan), sent pirate ships to plunder all sealives around the world, continue to build up coal power plants to increase global warming, and let's not forget COVID.

Also, let's not forget CCP is the reason why North Korea still exists and why Vietnam is still a communist country.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#60

Nobody seems to notice that it should not matter at all how accurate exactly the information Wikimedia contains, because it has no relation to the role they can fulfil at WIPO. China blocks the application, citing irrelevant info. Then other countries dismiss those irrelevant accusations as false. It seems the future of WIPO is to become irrelevant UN body.

They will be joining a long list of irrelevant UN bodies...
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