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California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

latimes.com

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Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#81

Post by michael1999 »

giantg2 wrote: post #50
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is we shouldn’t be dumping air quality externalities on everyone to have attractive landscaping. Everyone is collectively used to burning fossil fuels without paying the true cost, and wrings their hands when they have to pay for their use case with zero emissions technology. The value of clean air is proven from scientific research on emissions. https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-polluti…

And you think that a piece of equiptment that uses a quart of gas every other week is a significant contributor? Why not focus on where the real progress can be made (or the real cost contributors) instead of forcing a scenario with poor cost benefit tradeoff.

I think you misunderstand the statistics. Modern cars are so clean that the two-strokes powering lawn tools really are most of the smog in some cities. Getting rid of them will be a big improvement for many people.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#82

Post by Teknoman117 »

The part of this that is actually worrying to me is this also includes gas, diesel, and propane powered electric generators.

My parents live multiple hours north of the bay in the woods along the border of Jackson state forest and rely on their generator a few times a year. Their property is heavily wooded (lots of coastal redwoods) and on the north facing side of a mountain (it’s in the shade most of the day for most of the year), making both home solar and wind impractical.

With PG&E doing power cuts, they need some way to power the fridge, furnace, and sump pump. They had their power cut for two weeks at the beginning of this year because of a winter storm, and had to run the generator a bunch. It’s one thing to have backup batteries to cover a day or two without power, but they’d need half a megawatt hour of batteries to cover the multiple week outages they’ve already experienced.

It’s one thing to convert equipment from gas to electric where it makes sense, a wholesale ban on fuel powered equipment regardless of the situation is a bit asinine.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#83

Post by tomp »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
tomp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Have you used any? The batteries last 100x less than the tiny amount of petrol you pour into. You have to recharge 3x just to mow the whole (moderately sized) lawn. Hopefully newer models are better, but given the slow progress of car batteries, I doubt they're much better.

The argument is we shouldn’t be dumping air quality externalities on everyone to have attractive landscaping. Everyone is collectively used to burning fossil fuels without paying the true cost, and wrings their hands when they have to pay for their use case with zero emissions technology. The value of clean air is proven from scientific research on emissions. https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-polluti…

Maybe we should instead tax CO2/fossil fuels, and let people decide how they change their behaviour?

(In particular, there is a usecase for artificially made fuel from air-captured CO2 - superior energy density and durability compared to batteries.)

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#84

Post by zbuf »

chenster wrote: post #11

Totally second this but on a different ground. It's simply the noise it makes. Many people have been left trapped at home, working remotely as a result of Covid. A noisy machine, such as a gas-powered leaf blower, can disrupt a peaceful neighborhood day. Imagine your neighbor to your left mowing the lawn at 8 a.m., then neighbor to your right at 9 a.m., then another cross the street started at 10 a.m., and on and on.…

I'm a wildly optimistic person; could you suggest all your neighbours (including yourself) do these jobs at the same time? A sort of "preferred noise hour" for machinery. Even if its not a hard and fast rule, I'd hope most people would see the point and in turn enjoy the benefit in a world where many want the option to work remotely.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#85

Post by mmcgaha »

otterley wrote: post #65
mmcgaha wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see it now. Some dude sitting around drinking coffee waiting for his gear to charge plugged into a gas powered generator.

Modern battery technology is way better than it used to be. Today, you can use the same battery you use to power your cordless drill to power radios, vacuum cleaners, circular saws/table saws, chainsaws, trimmers, and even lawnmowers. DeWalt's 20V MAX system in particular is pretty neat.

These guys have a job that requires professional tools. They are not piddling around in the yard for a few hours on Saturday morning.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#86

Post by rdiddly »

garciasn wrote: post #53
rdiddly wrote: post #48

Landscaping companies will pass their transition costs on to their (generally rich-ish and/or corporate) customers, who have been benefiting disproportionately from what is essentially a commons, for a long time. The majority of people meanwhile, mow their own lawns, and will find the typical battery-powered mower cost-effective, adequate to the task, quieter, and more convenient because there's no need to bring fuel…

I recently bought a new house where I had to care for the yard (previously owned in a HoA which handled yard care) and tried an electric leaf blower. It made it no more than 10 mins on a charge and the batteries took 8-10 hours to get back to 100%. I didn’t find that at all adequate to the task.

Sounds like you got a bad battery and would've qualified for a free replacement. Or a free rake. I can mow for over an hour on a 3-hour charge.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#87

Post by short12 »

Good. Few sounds are more grinding than stupid leaf blowers

They for hours on end and kick up tons of dust for people with asma. With zero actual before other than a pretty looking patch of concrete

They should just be banned in all forms as they serve very little positive with much larger negatives

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#88

Post by [deleted] »

jet_32951 wrote: post #37
ericbarrett wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every city I lived in in California (NorCal and SoCal) already banned use of gasoline-powered gardening equipment. But none of them ever enforced it.

Berkeley was getting pretty aggressive with their ICE leaf blower enforcement last time I visited, which led me to wonder what happens when gardeners start buying ICE generators and plugging AC electric equipment into those. AFAICT these laws don't affect that.

[deleted]

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#89

Post by hentrep »

short12 wrote: post #87

Good. Few sounds are more grinding than stupid leaf blowers They for hours on end and kick up tons of dust for people with asma. With zero actual before other than a pretty looking patch of concrete They should just be banned in all forms as they serve very little positive with much larger negatives

Unless I’m misinterpreting the article, this isn’t banning leaf blowers in general - only those which are gas powered. Electric leaf blowers still carry the annoyance you’ve mentioned.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#90

Post by asplake »

garciasn wrote: post #70
lostapathy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professional lawn crews will use professional tools. I don't know what you bought, the Ego equipment is actually pretty good and has fast-ish chargers available.

It’s why I hired a company to do the work and returned the battery operated leaf blower. It’s worth every penny to have someone else do the work.

And you don’t have equipment gathering dust in the shed. Everyone owning under-utilised equipment is also a massive too
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