California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers • Hacker News Board

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#41

Post by minitoar » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

echopom wrote: post #28

> New portable gas-powered generators also must be zero-emissions by 2028 Fascinated by this large scale "green washing" taking place. As of today 50% of the electricity made in california comes from natural gas... On top of that an extra 37% of california electricity is imported from others states which are running mostly of natural gas... You can also add an extra 30% of energy coming from petrol for cars , public…

All new car and truck sales in the state must be electric by 2035. San Jose had already mandated new residential construction to be electric only. There are solar incentives. It’s not just “wind blowers”.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#42

Post by salawat » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

tomp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Have you used any? The batteries last 100x less than the tiny amount of petrol you pour into. You have to recharge 3x just to mow the whole (moderately sized) lawn. Hopefully newer models are better, but given the slow progress of car batteries, I doubt they're much better.

The argument is we shouldn’t be dumping air quality externalities on everyone to have attractive landscaping. Everyone is collectively used to burning fossil fuels without paying the true cost, and wrings their hands when they have to pay for their use case with zero emissions technology. The value of clean air is proven from scientific research on emissions. https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-polluti…

No, the real problem is no one wants to corral the chief contributors, so people try to go after the little people first who can't hire lobbyists to babysit legislators.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#43

Post by clairity » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

echopom wrote: post #28

> New portable gas-powered generators also must be zero-emissions by 2028 Fascinated by this large scale "green washing" taking place. As of today 50% of the electricity made in california comes from natural gas... On top of that an extra 37% of california electricity is imported from others states which are running mostly of natural gas... You can also add an extra 30% of energy coming from petrol for cars , public…

yah, this is the type of thing that i’d nominally support (hate the twice weekly immersion in unburnt pollution wafting into my apartment), but it’s so far down the list of things that can meaningfully reduce pollution, it’s farcical. but lawmakers are going to pat themselves on the back and toot their own horns like they’d saved the world once again.

this kind of law is straight up distraction. energy production and transportation (and industry after that) are where we’ll have actual, material impact, and where our sole focus should be in this regard.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#44

Post by mmcgaha » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

TanakaTarou wrote: post #20

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #14

It's funny that people who go out of their way to announce their "support" for marginalized people don't bother asking the gardeners who use them why they use them. In California those are overwhelmingly Mexican, and they're working in the hot sun to feed their families. They use a leaf blower because it lets them get done faster and make a little more money.

They can still use a leaf blower but in the future it must be electric powered instead of gasoline.

I can see it now. Some dude sitting around drinking coffee waiting for his gear to charge plugged into a gas powered generator.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#45

Post by LatinAmerican » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

How will non-hydrocarbon engines polute less when you produce electricity by burning hydrocarbons, 47% for California according to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California

Then, are you considering power converting inefficiencies, relying in a distribution matrix, burdening the local power production, maybe making prices go up, and adding toxic batteries that end up in a land fill ?

But for people money and beautiful grass is more important than the environment

Edit: Spelling

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#46

Post by chenster » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #36

chenster wrote: post #11

Totally second this but on a different ground. It's simply the noise it makes. Many people have been left trapped at home, working remotely as a result of Covid. A noisy machine, such as a gas-powered leaf blower, can disrupt a peaceful neighborhood day. Imagine your neighbor to your left mowing the lawn at 8 a.m., then neighbor to your right at 9 a.m., then another cross the street started at 10 a.m., and on and on.…

Addendum: also need to ban children playing outside. They make so much damned noise.

sure, if they only make as much as what the leaf blowers make!

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#47

Post by verisimi » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

echopom wrote: post #28

> New portable gas-powered generators also must be zero-emissions by 2028 Fascinated by this large scale "green washing" taking place. As of today 50% of the electricity made in california comes from natural gas... On top of that an extra 37% of california electricity is imported from others states which are running mostly of natural gas... You can also add an extra 30% of energy coming from petrol for cars , public…

Its about socialising and shifting blame onto the consumer rather than resolving the problem at source, ie with the corporations.

Corporations have lobbists to ensure that they will not be out of pocket as people transition to 'green energy' - in fact they hope that this will be a new growth opportunity.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#48

Post by rdiddly » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

Landscaping companies will pass their transition costs on to their (generally rich-ish and/or corporate) customers, who have been benefiting disproportionately from what is essentially a commons, for a long time. The majority of people meanwhile, mow their own lawns, and will find the typical battery-powered mower cost-effective, adequate to the task, quieter, and more convenient because there's no need to bring fuel from off site.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#49

Post by bombcar » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #21

I had an electric lawn mower it was great compared to gas mainly due to it being so quiet. Charging wasn't too bad at first one battery for the front yard and one for the back. But then one battery would not charge as much or run for as long as when new. The store had moved on to new models so I couldnt buy a battery in store. Even if I could it was expensive $100, the mower cost $250. Online even the manufacturer se…

The battery issue is why I’ll only consider companies that make the OPE (outdoor power equipment) as a side part of their main battery powered tool business.

Milwaukee’s M18 mower is coming out next year and I’ll be getting that.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#50

Post by giantg2 » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

tomp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Have you used any? The batteries last 100x less than the tiny amount of petrol you pour into. You have to recharge 3x just to mow the whole (moderately sized) lawn. Hopefully newer models are better, but given the slow progress of car batteries, I doubt they're much better.

The argument is we shouldn’t be dumping air quality externalities on everyone to have attractive landscaping. Everyone is collectively used to burning fossil fuels without paying the true cost, and wrings their hands when they have to pay for their use case with zero emissions technology. The value of clean air is proven from scientific research on emissions. https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-polluti…

And you think that a piece of equiptment that uses a quart of gas every other week is a significant contributor? Why not focus on where the real progress can be made (or the real cost contributors) instead of forcing a scenario with poor cost benefit tradeoff.