Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#31

Post by ipaddr » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:24 AM UTC

rubyist5eva wrote: post #24

Paid off in what exactly? Many of our provincial governments have implemented totalitarian measures despite an insanely high vaccination rate and low death rate - creating a medically segregated society. In one province, the government has given itself vast power to perform warrantless search, confiscate property and conscript any person to the cause of "managing the emergency". Our courts uphold the measures because…

The government's actions I can understand. The courts decisions based on 'unprecedence' events is troublesome. It creates a low barrier for the removal of any rights. An event will happen like this again.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#32

Post by ipaddr » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:29 AM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #7

roenxi wrote: post #4

We might look at these stats and think that they demonstrate a safe and effective vaccine. But there is still a very real risk that won't stop the government of Canada implementing a full China-style surveillance system tracking system that monitor where every citizen is, when and sets up all the necessary infrastructure to block someone's ability to travel.

This is a bizarre comment. What does the efficacy of Canada's improvised mixed vaccination "plan" have to do with implementing a dictatorship? And have you noticed how big and poorly connected rural Canada is? It's pretty easy to get out of range of cell towers and effectively not be trackable. How is the Canadian government going to cover the country with enough infrastructure to monitor where every citizen is in a…

The tracking is through vaccine checkins via vaccine passports. Boarding any travel method in Canada now requires a vaccine checkin.

These passports will remain a long time.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#33

Post by Causality1 » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:37 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

Why is it luck? They all result in exposing the body to the exact same spike protein. We would have to be dangerously wrong about what the vaccines do for them to not work fine together.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#34

Post by wk_end » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:41 AM UTC

jszymborski wrote: post #14

defaultname wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines" Canada was one of the first countries to pre-order vaccines, signing massive agreements with just about every candidate maker. I'm aware of literally a single deal happening with another country prior to Canada's orders. What thwarted Canada's efforts was that the US defacto nationalized the medical establishment in that country, while Cana…

Speaking of nationalising the medical industry: Fun fact, Canada was the home of Connaught labs, a publicly owned laboratory which was the first lab to produce the Salk's Polio vaccine, and went on to produce the Smallpox vaccine. In the 1970s, however, Canada went on a privatizing spree (incidentally, the same gov't that ratified NAFTA), and Connaught was privatised and sold many time since. More info here https://w…

Your dates are a little off. The 70s had little to do with it - Canada’s privatization spree under Mulroney lined up with Reagan and Thatcher. So Connaught Labs was destroyed in the 80s by the Mulroney Conservatives. And NAFTA was ratified in the 90s by the Chretian Liberals, although it was Mulroney’s baby.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#35

Post by SECProto » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:50 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #15

klyrs wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...full China-style surveillance system tracking system that monitor where every citizen is... Got any sources indicating that this is in the works?

They're setting up restrictions on public (and private) transport [0]. Work is being done to support using OHS as a lever to push vaccination [1] which is going to require centralised databases integrated into business processes. Toronto is setting up systems to verify that everyone is vaccinated at gatherings of 1,000+ people [2]. This is setting the infrastructure to implement a social credit system. It is a small…

...the step from "vaccine requirements on federally regulated transport services" is a hell of a lot closer to "drivers license to operate a car" or "recognized ID to board a plane" than it is to "full China-style surveillance system tracking system that monitor where every citizen is". I think your interpretation of this is hyperbolic.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#36

Post by _3u10 » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #7

roenxi wrote: post #4

We might look at these stats and think that they demonstrate a safe and effective vaccine. But there is still a very real risk that won't stop the government of Canada implementing a full China-style surveillance system tracking system that monitor where every citizen is, when and sets up all the necessary infrastructure to block someone's ability to travel.

This is a bizarre comment. What does the efficacy of Canada's improvised mixed vaccination "plan" have to do with implementing a dictatorship? And have you noticed how big and poorly connected rural Canada is? It's pretty easy to get out of range of cell towers and effectively not be trackable. How is the Canadian government going to cover the country with enough infrastructure to monitor where every citizen is in a…

I live in a town of 10,000. I have fiber optic internet from my ISP. Less than 500m from my house is a city run fiber network.

I checked the places I've lived for the last 10 years in Vancouver, none of them are eligible for fiber optic.

Rural Canada is much better connected than major cities.

It's not easy to not be trackable in Canada, every highway of any significance has a highway cam. If you really want to live off grid in a tent I suppose you could evade tracking.

For 99% of people, they are easily tracked. Tracking isn't about 100% compliance its about 99% compliance.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#37

Post by refurb » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

jeromegv wrote: post #25

ipaddr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada signed the most deals but are you aware that Canada had delivery dates months scheduled for months later in the contracts which is why Canada had no recourse but to wait. Just to keep face 250k dose were flown in before the year but the contracts expected some delivery by March but most by summer.

And what is your point? The only countries that had a large amount of doses in the first few months of 2021 were the countries producing the vaccine. There was no way that the US would produce for export before vaccinating their own population. Canada had no local production. There was literally nothing they could do but wait. Its of course a problem not to have local production. But it’s not a lack of orders that wa…

Israel beat the US in vaccination rate.

”Israel cast a wide net last year when trying to secure vaccine doses at the height of the pandemic and pre-ordered from a number of companies.”

By April of 2021 it was already giving excess doses away.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/with-enough-suppli...

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#38

Post by refurb » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 7:02 AM UTC

defaultname wrote: post #19

sandworm101 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. No. Canada made some bad bets on where they would be getting vaccine. Canada assumed that a particular person would still be in the white house and that early US vaccines would not be available for export. So Canada threw in largely with European suppliers. That gamble was wrong. The certain person lost and US vaccination rates were lower then expected. US vaccine…

Canada's two biggest suppliers by far have been Pfizer and Moderna. Canada doesn't dictate where they supply the product from. The US nationalized production in that government decree made it illegal to ship to anyone else unless US contracts had been satisfied in full (NOTE: I am not judging this at all. The merits of it are arguable, but it does point out a weakness in a reliance on free trade). The change of gover…

How did Israel gets enough vaccine by April then? Canada had barely started receiving doses then?

I see an awful lot of whitewashing to cover mistakes going on.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#39

Post by refurb » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

Causality1 wrote: post #33

refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

Why is it luck? They all result in exposing the body to the exact same spike protein. We would have to be dangerously wrong about what the vaccines do for them to not work fine together.

It’s not the exact same spike protein.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#40

Post by didibus » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 7:05 AM UTC

yelnatz wrote: post #16

I have mixed vaccinations since I'm in BC. Hopefully I get a third booster shot so I can be considered fully vaccinated in the states.

I'm in the states, and they consider 2 dose to be "fully vaccinated". This is relevant for all laws that mention the requirement is to be "fully vaccinated", and that's 2 dose for Pfizer or Moderna and one for J&J.