Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement • Hacker News Board

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#281

Post by IrishTeacher » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 8:54 AM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #253

eru wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though still not quite as compelling, because you still have to speak Dutch eg at the playground.

It's worth mentioning that I'm Ireland most schools teach in Irish, not English.

You must be thinking of an area with an unusually high number of Gaelscoils!

Speaking as a former Irish language teacher in a English speaking school in Ireland (now a software engineer in a tech multinational), I don't think most schools teach in Irish, not English. Perhaps you meant it the other way round?

2019 Irish Times: "Number of primary school pupils taught through Irish at record level". Article notes that Irish as primary language of education has risen from 6.4% in 2000 to 8.1% in 2018/19. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/number-of-primary-...

Repeated surveys have shown that secondary students taught through Irish have higher Irish language exam results, but not significantly lower English (or French, German, or Spanish) results. The vast majority of adults in Ireland cannot speak Irish fluently, or at all except for some school-learned phrases. It is not the common language of commerce.

For anyone thinking of relocating to Ireland and confused by my comment or the school system, there is a difference between 'Irish is a subject everyone does in primary/secondary school' to 'Every subject is taught through Irish in schools'. In over 90% of schools, Irish is just one subject across 7 curriculum areas in primary: https://www.curriculumonline.ie/Primary/Curriculum/ and one of 3 mandatory subjects at secondary (with English and Maths).

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#282

Post by mattmanser » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 8:55 AM UTC

krastanov wrote: post #136

rsj_hn wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go ahead and cite the passage in the Treaty of Lisbon that says Polish law can be overriden by EU law. I'll wait. Hint: the reason why the structure of the EU was designed so that national parliaments would pass their own versions of laws agreed to in the EU parliament was precisely because it is the national laws that are binding. Similarly the EU courts rule on actions of the member states in the context of the EU,…

You are confusing EU regulations and EU directives. One is automatically binding. Read these two pages. They are fairly clear, contain references to primary sources, and disagree with your claims: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-making-process/types-eu-la... https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM... Article 288 Treaty on Functioning of the EU (ex Article 249 TEC) To exercise the Union's compet…

"Shall adopt" means they have to make local laws. All you're doing is highlighting the grandparent's point.

The grandparent is right and you're wrong.

Also, be very wary about quoting sources that end in a domain .EU, they're obviously biased.

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#283

Post by Le_Dook » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 9:01 AM UTC

gorgoiler wrote: post #270

collectedparts wrote: post #42

My take on this is that Ireland is now willing to come into compliance because post-Brexit, they now have a monopoly on "urban core that could sustain an HQ for multinationals in a natively-English-speaking country in the EU." In other words, they relied on tax advantages as a differentiator for companies to choose Dublin over London for their EU HQ. But now, what would you choose if not Dublin? Obviously Paris and B…

Dublin is a beautiful city. It is very small though, compared to London. Imagine moving Wall St from NYC to Austin TX.

I think one possible downside is the amount of major datacenters in such a small space. It's about 7 or 8? And you've got Facebook, Amazon, Google the likes. Recently there was almost a blackout in the city cause the grid just couldn't handle it after we got rid of the peat burning power stations

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#284

Post by fcanela » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 9:03 AM UTC

oaiey wrote: post #197

kory wrote: post #189

Government should prove it can spend the money well before asking for more. The waste and incompetence I see in government is astounding. It's much worse than anything I've seen in private corporations. Speaking specifically for America, the government can barely even agree on where it wants to spend its current "budget". Say you have a couple who constantly fights over how to spend their $10m/yr budget, of which nea…

This is not about asking for more money. This is about companies cannot fleeing rational tax rates of normal countries into countries which specialize in "stealing" the companies from normal countries and making this their code business.

Why shouldn't people or companies be able to move where they can grow, prosper or have rules according to their values or projects? Curiously, when we talk about taxes the focus is often in the country that is harboring people instead the one that made itself unattractive.

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#285

Post by rusk » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 9:06 AM UTC

collectedparts wrote: post #42

My take on this is that Ireland is now willing to come into compliance because post-Brexit, they now have a monopoly on "urban core that could sustain an HQ for multinationals in a natively-English-speaking country in the EU." In other words, they relied on tax advantages as a differentiator for companies to choose Dublin over London for their EU HQ. But now, what would you choose if not Dublin? Obviously Paris and B…

Official Ireland were dragged into this kicking and screaming. There really wasn’t much choice involved - unless the OECD brass were thinking in generous terms towards Ireland. If anything I’d say the timing of this is in part what drove Brexit - this has been coming for a few years now and “City”* of London is one of the worlds biggest hubs for processing funny money.

* This is the somewhat cryptic name for the financial services enclave in the middle of London City.

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#286

Post by papower » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #253

eru wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though still not quite as compelling, because you still have to speak Dutch eg at the playground.

It's worth mentioning that I'm Ireland most schools teach in Irish, not English.

Another Irish resident confirming that this statement is not true.

Most schools teach in English and teach Irish as a second language. Irish is rarely used in normal day to day interactions and never at work unless you work in an Irish language related area or government department that supports Irish as an official language.

There are some niche exceptions:

- "All Irish" schools where you optionally learn through Irish

- "Gaeltachts" which are pockets of Ireland where Irish is promoted and spoken. Even here the locals will happily switch to English if you prefer.

I like Irish and wish it was more widely spoken as an everyday language but in reality you have to make an explicit effort to experience it.

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#287

Post by dfawcus » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #214

Sebguer wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

There's a lot of weird accents here in the UK. Even cockney sounds odd, and that's local to London. In the same place you'll meet people from Liverpool, Newcastle, Birmingham, Scotland and so on, all with distinctive accents that are not so easy for your ordinary American or second language speaker.

Weird? Nah, but there is a lot of variation, and some of them can be difficult even for locals to understand.

However most of us naturally switch to some variation of RP (or as heard on the BBC) while interacting with non locals. It has often been said that there is more variation in the way that English is spoken within the UK, than there is in the rest of the world.

I once had an experience in the USA while sitting at a Restaurant bar and conversing with the barman. He eventually asked where I was from, presumably due to my manner of speech (in English).

I then went through the rigmarole of asking him if he believed I was a native speaker, or knew it as a second language. He picked native, but was unable to enumerate the short list of countries where I was possibly from, and could not guess the answer.

At no point did he try England. He was surprised when I eventually told him I was British, and from England.

It seems too many folk in the US expect that all of us sound like Hugh Grant.

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#288

Post by ramraj07 » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

rufus_foreman wrote: post #186

ramraj07 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people in Houston said they like it in Texas? The point is that the urban population pretty much hates it there given the new laws.

>> And people in Houston said they like it in Texas? They voted with their feet.

Heard of this big word called gerrymandering? Its when politicians do hijinks to ensure that voting with ones feet becomes more and more ineffective for people that don't support said politicians.

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#289

Post by nightcracker » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

marvel_boy wrote: post #275

pbourke wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands has the highest English proficiency in the world [0] (among non-native speaking countries) so I imagine it would be a compelling choice. [0] https://www.ef.com/wwen/epi/

India in the 50th place? My company has Indian workers and they speak English very well.

I would guess that India is too large to meaningfully include in such a statistic. On average in the country English literacy could be quite poor while in the relevant tech hubs it is quite good. But that's just a hypothesis.

Re: Ireland joins OECD International Tax agreement

#290

Post by fartingflamingo » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #271

fartingflamingo wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If language fluency would be the most important criterium - which it isn't-, the Dutch speaking 60% of Belgium are an even more logical choice. They're buried in that ranking below the less stellar English in the French speaking part of Belgium. Flemish people might be an even more logical choice for the EU. Similar English, Dutch and basic German fluency, plus with most uni educated people there, pretty decent Frenc…

Are Latvians still learning Russian these days as well? In Georgia I noticed a big difference between the older (Russian) and younger (English) in their second language skills.

This is getting fairly off topic, but since you ask... My impressions about people born in Latvia post-1991 are numerous, but obviously anecdotal:

- Most native Latvian language speakers born in Latvia post-1991 will have low or non-existent Russian language skills, especially in the west (Kurzeme) or north. Very few native Russian speakers there. The situation in and around Riga is a little bit different. Try getting a customer-facing job in the private sector around Riga if you don't speak any Russian...

My significant other is young and speaks Russian fluently by accident. Native Latvian language, but raised in a "Khrushchevka" (Soviet apartment block) full of native Russian speaking families. Playing with the other kids meant learning Russian...

- Very very large differences amongst native Russian speaking youths in Latvia's three largest cities. A significant number hardly speak any Latvian. I've asked kids for directions that had trouble finding the words for "left" or "right". Which is somewhat surprising, given that officially, they're taking a significant part of their school in Latvian. Another group speaks both languages fluently. I've had chats over lunch with people I could hardly detect their native Russian background.

- Surprisingly, _a lot_ of young people in both groups speak abysmally bad English too.