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Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

theregister.com

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Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#81

Post by Shared404 »

charcircuit wrote: post #78
Shared404 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean an alternative that is what Firefox purports to be? To privacy and functionality thow shalt count. Not to infunctionality, nor tracking. Google is Right Out.

Google respects your privacy and Chrome tends to have more features than Firefox.

> Google respects your privacy

Do you work there? I see no other way you could possibly think this.

If not, do you have a source you can provide?

> Chrome tends to have more features than Firefox

This is true. Some features, I have no use for, some are outside of standards and thus lead to the same issue as years ago with IE, and some fall under both.

Admittedly, me having no use for some doesn't mean they don't have value for other people. It's the standard extend and extinguishing that worries me.

And yes, a standard that only one company can hit may as well be extinguished.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#82

Post by nsonha »

sharps1 wrote: post #26
nsonha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these forks will die because even firefox, a well organised OSS project is struggling That leaves Edge, Chrome, Opera and Vivaldi Because you even mentioned them, I don't think you understand the question. Let me rephrase it: who will develop, and have a sustainable business model for a new browser engine and break Chromium's monoculture, other than Firefox?

Vivaldi only has a small team. They said in 2016 they only needed five million users to turn a profit (They generate income based on search engine referrals). Another downside to Vivaldi is they don’t push out many releases meaning that their security is likely lagging behind. My assumption on this is their custom UI takes a while to build after a new release. Edge and Chrome both push out timely security updates. ED…

who cares? They are still Chrome, whether they live or die, the course of the web platform is still unaffected

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#83

Post by rixed »

snypher wrote: post #58
charcircuit wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Send a request to Google for all of your data. It won't be in there.

I can't trust them to say that's all there is.

You cannot trust what a company says but you can trust what former or current employees of this company say. Companies are not some unfathomable alien life form, after all.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#84

Post by throwaway81523 »

charcircuit wrote: post #70
ectopod wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know they don't feed it into an ML system before they delete it? That lets them "not save it" while reaping the benefits of saving it.

If it's deleted, then why would you care? It no longer has anything to do with you.

If they have trained an ML system on it, they have acquired and exploited info about your private behaviour even if it is anonymized. So it is an invasion. The trope "not personally identifiable => not invasive" is self-serving and a non-sequitur and needs to die.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#85

Post by throwaway81523 »

charcircuit wrote: post #72
snypher wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't trust them to say that's all there is.

Maybe you should learn how to trust people / companies than always being paranoid.

As the saying goes, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#86

Post by greatgib »

No one as any insider info of how this kind of things is going on inside Firefox corp?

I find it curious that privacy cautious OSS devs would not complain highly when asked to add shitty "feature" like that. And it is not the first one recently.

So, is it like in a big corp where an asshole management executive push down such decision from the top?

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#87

Post by morsch »

perihelions wrote: post #11

The dark pattern in one image: https://regmedia.co.uk/2021/10/07/suggest.jpg I and I think many others chose "Customize in settings" -- but the actual opt-out is that hard-to-see, third button in small print. We didn't "get opted-in automatically" -- it's this dialog we "opted in" with.

So what happens when you press customize? From looking at a relevant changeset[1], it seems that only Allow enables the ads (setting suggest.quicksuggest.sponsored), while Customize does not (and the comments specifically says the user remains opted out). The related bug is marked as confidential[2].

Incidentally, here[3] is an interesting list of settings relating to the address bar that may or may not be documented elsewhere.

[1] https://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta/rev/6348c24c98c...

[2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1693126 I may be remembering this wrong, but most bugs on bugzilla are open to the public, this one isn't, presumably because they weren't interested in public discussion

[2] https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/autoland/rev/d3de5eaaaa15

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#88

Post by WithinReason »

throwaway661885 wrote: post #9
jjcon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some get annoyed with this answer but if you look into what the Brave team is doing they have a lot of really interesting projects in the works. I've had a great experience with Brave.

Please no https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28746873 Edit - Also 'Ublock Origin' works best with Firefox https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26755252

I couldn't find anything of substance here, just FUD

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#89

Post by tomjen3 »

charcircuit wrote: post #46
gnu8 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that make this ok?

Because it's normal in marketing. Most web servers log your whole IP yet people don't freak out about that.

Is ought fallacy.

Just because it is normal in marketing does not make it okay. I am increasingly of the point that marketing, by itself, is not okay.

In my browser, it is certainly not okay. I attempt to practice memetic hygine, so I do not want to see ads. Not wanting to see ads, and having some actual privacy in the first place, is why I use Firefox.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#90

Post by jrootabega »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #65
perihelions wrote: post #11

The dark pattern in one image: https://regmedia.co.uk/2021/10/07/suggest.jpg I and I think many others chose "Customize in settings" -- but the actual opt-out is that hard-to-see, third button in small print. We didn't "get opted-in automatically" -- it's this dialog we "opted in" with.

Geez, why doesn't Mozilla simply ask for donations if it needs money for development. Imagine if all free open source projects operated this way. Advertising on computers is a virus. Just when you think you have it eliminated or under control, someone starts spreading it again.

It might make the majority of people lose trust in them, even if they were doing it for the right reasons and were actually going to use the money for the right purposes. People just associate that kind of behavior with scams and poorly run organizations.
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