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Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

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Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#11
The dark pattern in one image:

https://regmedia.co.uk/2021/10/07/suggest.jpg

I and I think many others chose "Customize in settings" -- but the actual opt-out is that hard-to-see, third button in small print. We didn't "get opted-in automatically" -- it's this dialog we "opted in" with.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#12

Does a serious alternative to Firefox exist? I mean an alternative that is what Firefox purports to be? I'm ready to make the switch. Been with Mozilla since Pheonix, but the user hostility has become too much.

Well... A few years ago I did the same journey, abandoning Firefox for something else. There's several stable and serious browsers out there.

After looking for weeks I created a list of categories... And it depends on what are you willing to sacrifice:

Just want a plain browser, without logins, synchronization, without ANY external connections etc:

Ungoogled-chromium (Windows, Linux...) and Bromite (Android).

Don't care about full web compatibility or speed but keep your privacy under control:

Waterfox Classic and Palemoon (Windows and Linux).

Don't care about Open Source vs Closed Source licensing (but still preserve some privacy):

Vivaldi (the most customizable Chromium-based browser out there but the UI even after several improvements feels a bit slower than other browsers).

Don't care about privacy... Then it's quite easy:

Edge, Chrome, Opera.

If you are into cryptocurrencies or need a nice browser with decent adblocking on iOS: Brave.

I decided to use Vivaldi since I like to personalize the looks of my browser quite a lot.

The best recommendation is to try everything for a while and settle with the one you feel most comfortable.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#13

Does a serious alternative to Firefox exist? I mean an alternative that is what Firefox purports to be? I'm ready to make the switch. Been with Mozilla since Pheonix, but the user hostility has become too much.

I wish. Gecko is open source, so there's no technical reason another non-Chromium browser couldn't be created (which I think is important for the web ecosystem, avoiding browser monoculture, etc.). I suspect that no one has really done it because it would be a terrible uphill battle and there's no direct revenue to be had. Browser money comes from ad/search partnerships, which require a strong existing userbase, or just the userbase itself in the case of something like Chrome.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#14

Does a serious alternative to Firefox exist? I mean an alternative that is what Firefox purports to be? I'm ready to make the switch. Been with Mozilla since Pheonix, but the user hostility has become too much.

Personal opinion: There is an entire economy and ecosystem based on rewarding sinister web design. The complexity and resources involved in keeping pace with contemporary garbage while qualifying simply as a functional browser is too vast. So much that I suspect it's all downhill from here. I don't believe we'll ever see an all around user-friendly, privacy respecting, well designed, functional browser. I'd delight i…

> There is an entire economy and ecosystem based on rewarding sinister web design. The complexity and resources involved in keeping pace with contemporary garbage while qualifying simply as a functional browser is too vast.

Yeah, HTML standards have basically evolved into a kind of regulatory capture that protects Google's browser. Even Microsoft found them too difficult to implement and meet user expectations.

> I don't believe we'll ever see an all around user-friendly, privacy respecting, well designed, functional browser. I'd delight in being wrong here, but sincerely doubt it.

At least if we rely on market incentives. I suppose we might see one if it's regulated into existence (e.g. European regulators forcing Google, Microsoft, etc. to provide browsers that respect privacy and provide functional extension capability for ad blockers and the like).

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#15

Does a serious alternative to Firefox exist? I mean an alternative that is what Firefox purports to be? I'm ready to make the switch. Been with Mozilla since Pheonix, but the user hostility has become too much.

I plan to give LibreWolf a try.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#16
post #12

Does a serious alternative to Firefox exist? I mean an alternative that is what Firefox purports to be? I'm ready to make the switch. Been with Mozilla since Pheonix, but the user hostility has become too much.

Well... A few years ago I did the same journey, abandoning Firefox for something else. There's several stable and serious browsers out there. After looking for weeks I created a list of categories... And it depends on what are you willing to sacrifice: Just want a plain browser, without logins, synchronization, without ANY external connections etc: Ungoogled-chromium (Windows, Linux...) and Bromite (Android). Don't c…

All these forks will die because even firefox, a well organised OSS project is struggling

That leaves Edge, Chrome, Opera and Vivaldi

Because you even mentioned them, I don't think you understand the question. Let me rephrase it: who will develop, and have a sustainable business model for a new browser engine and break Chromium's monoculture, other than Firefox?

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#17
post #16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... A few years ago I did the same journey, abandoning Firefox for something else. There's several stable and serious browsers out there. After looking for weeks I created a list of categories... And it depends on what are you willing to sacrifice: Just want a plain browser, without logins, synchronization, without ANY external connections etc: Ungoogled-chromium (Windows, Linux...) and Bromite (Android). Don't c…

All these forks will die because even firefox, a well organised OSS project is struggling That leaves Edge, Chrome, Opera and Vivaldi Because you even mentioned them, I don't think you understand the question. Let me rephrase it: who will develop, and have a sustainable business model for a new browser engine and break Chromium's monoculture, other than Firefox?

>> firefox, a well organised OSS project

I see no proof of this.

>> is struggling

Money-wise, no. Management-wise, hell-to-the-yes.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#18
post #6

Does a serious alternative to Firefox exist? I mean an alternative that is what Firefox purports to be? I'm ready to make the switch. Been with Mozilla since Pheonix, but the user hostility has become too much.

I know some get annoyed with this answer but if you look into what the Brave team is doing they have a lot of really interesting projects in the works. I've had a great experience with Brave.

They also have a search engine that's good enough most of the time.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some get annoyed with this answer but if you look into what the Brave team is doing they have a lot of really interesting projects in the works. I've had a great experience with Brave.

Brave being webkit, it's not an alternative.

>Brave being webkit, it's not an alternative.

Brave is Blink not webkit - Blink has been developed by Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Intel and many others. It is the standard for web rendering just as linux is for web hosting. There is nothing wrong with open standards.

Re: Firefox: Dark pattern consent dialog invites users to share their location

#20
I'm not sure how long this message has been here, but Firefox does have this note on it's website[1]:

> We haven't quite hit our mark. We've received feedback that it's difficult to figure out which Firefox experience you've got enabled. We are hard at work to address this and continue to improve the feature.

[1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/navigate-web-faster-fir...

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