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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#191

Post by TulliusCicero »

mythrwy wrote: post #184
Certhas wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote. Fear mongering. Misleading statistic. Misleading/demonstrably wrong information presented with an air of "obviously". Conspiracy... What is eroding trust in vaccines are narratives like this. You pretend like every single point you raise (accelerated development, VAERS) doesn't have a clear explanation that is readily available with a single search. You pretend as if these "issues" you identify are swept un…

Is it "factual" Biden didn't win through voter fraud? How exactly did you determine this? (to be clear I'm not suggesting he did, only questioning your methods of determining truth). "Back when it was plausible to get to herd immunity with 60% of adults vaccinated". That was never possible with these series of vaccines which don't prevent transmission, don't give full protection, and don't last very long. It's frankl…

> Is it "factual" Biden didn't win through voter fraud?

Yes.

> How exactly did you determine this?

By waiting for all the people who did assert voter fraud to present their hard evidence in court. There wasn't any.

It's like asking whether it's "factual" that Obama is a human man instead of a secret lizard person wearing an advanced nanotech disguise. I can't affirmatively prove the non-existence of something, but that doesn't mean it's less of a fact.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#192

Post by tinus_hn »

lightsighter wrote: post #159
georgekv wrote: post #108

From NEJM Israeli study on Pfizer: "In our study, definite or probable cases of myocarditis among persons between the ages of 16 and 19 years within 21 days after the second vaccine dose occurred in approximately 1 of 6637 male recipients and in 1 of 99,853 female recipients." Moderna shot is worse then for boys. What again is the rush to vaccinate the lowest risk age group? https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM…

> What again is the rush to vaccinate the lowest risk age group? Because they still contribute to chain of transmission to the most vulnerable members of society, likely in a disproportional way since younger members of society tend to socialize more. Fighting a virus is a collective action. In order to stop transmission to the vulnerable members, you need to cut edges along all paths through the graph. Furthermore,…

Vaccinated people can still get infected and transmit the virus to others, with or without mutations. The idea that vaccinated people are ‘safe to be around’ is an outdated fantasy.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#193

Post by nojokes »

deverant wrote: post #10
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

Taken from https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12132652 (sorry, in Finnish): Spikevax: 5 cases out of about 49000 Comirnaty: 6 out of about 380000 I think these are numbers from Finland specifically and not the larger study.

They say less than 5.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#194

Post by iratewizard »

cletus wrote: post #147
noetic_techy wrote: post #110

The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…

> The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly ... There are many problems. That's not one of them. Here is a better list of problems: 1. People don't understand what "research" means. Hint: watching a Youtube video with no peer-reviewed research is not "research"; 2. People fundamentally don't understand and assess risk correctly. This long predates the anti-vaxxer hyseria. It's why, f…

The USDA and AHA recommended cutting out saturated fat for decades and eating 9-13 daily servings of bread and grain. The authorities you say all should blindly follow are grossly incompetent and shown to be wrong time and time again. How long has the medical field been failing with its reproducibility crisis? How many deaths per year are attributed to malpractice in the US?

If you want to listen to a bunch of well meaning morons and take their experimental treatment, have fun. The rest of us will appreciate your sacrifice up until the point you try to drag us into your suicidal cult.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#195

Post by Antipode »

polack wrote: post #48
mfer wrote: post #8

So, they are halting the Moderna vaccine due to myocarditis and recommending the Phizer shot for younger men. Yet, Israel found the Phizer shot lead to myocarditis issues [0]. I wonder what the numbers are and what data decision makers are looking at. [0] https://archive.is/3bZoH/ (NYTimes)

Sweden have had 125 reported cases of myocarditis for people that have used Pfizer and 44 that used Moderna. But then there have been 10,6 million shots of Pfizer administered and only 1,8 million shots of Moderna. So quite clear that the risk is higher for Moderna, even though the risk is low for both of them.

Any current data on the rate amongst unvaccinated people?

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#196

Post by mythrwy »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #191
mythrwy wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it "factual" Biden didn't win through voter fraud? How exactly did you determine this? (to be clear I'm not suggesting he did, only questioning your methods of determining truth). "Back when it was plausible to get to herd immunity with 60% of adults vaccinated". That was never possible with these series of vaccines which don't prevent transmission, don't give full protection, and don't last very long. It's frankl…

> Is it "factual" Biden didn't win through voter fraud? Yes. > How exactly did you determine this? By waiting for all the people who did assert voter fraud to present their hard evidence in court. There wasn't any. It's like asking whether it's "factual" that Obama is a human man instead of a secret lizard person wearing an advanced nanotech disguise. I can't affirmatively prove the non-existence of something, but th…

You are claiming an article of faith as fact. It isn't.

You can assert probabilities but you can't prove a negative.

Appeal to ridicule doesn't change that.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#197

Post by fspeech »

twofornone wrote: post #136
tessierashpool wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the anti-vax hockey player Josh Archibald recently caught COVID and developed myocarditis as a consequence. It's among the known sequelae. Your risk of myocarditis from COVID is 10x-20x your risk of myocarditis from a vaccine. (One of many many sources: https://twitter.com/awong37/status/1444825498018795521 )

>Your risk of myocarditis from COVID is 10x-20x your risk of myocarditis from a vaccine It really bothers me that people are still touting such numbers around as obvious, indisputable facts given the poor quality of both covid and adverse effect statistical data. 1. What are the odds that you will experience symptoms if you get myocarditis? 2. What are the odds that vaccine induced myocarditis will be reported as suc…

The virus is very proinflammatory so it's not surprising that vaccines that simulate parts of the virus are also proinflammatory. There even appears to be a dose dependence: Moderna packs in a lot more than Pfizer-BNT. So there is a rational framework to think about this. What is bizarre is how people could in the same breath show a lot of fear of the vaccine but then brush off the risk from uncontrolled viral reproduction in one's body from an infection.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#198

Post by XorNot »

CheezeIt wrote: post #121
tptacek wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of C19 fatalities under 30 in the US appears to easily exceed the number of vaccine-related myocarditis cases. The overwhelming majority of those myocarditis cases followed a benign course. Later Another thing to consider is that the myocarditis rate from C19 itself may exceed that of the vaccine, which would basically refute the argument against vaccination. (By all means, pick vaccines strategically.)

That number for under 30’s is full of people who are extremely fat or otherwise have preexisting health problems. If you’re under 30 and seemingly healthy your fatality rate is much lower.

Except the risk is not 0 if you don't have comorbidities.

People keep throwing this statement out as though somehow the risk of vaccination is higher then the risks due to viral infection. It is not.

The risks of adverse reactions to COVID infection is reduced across the board if you are fully vaccinated regardless of your health status.

Also worth noting: plenty of young people have comorbidities they don't know about yet, because they haven't found them. It is actually quite difficult to exclude yourself from the "has comorbidities" risk group apriori. A common one is in fact undiscovered heart conditions for people in their 30s, since they usually only become an issue later in life when symptoms are more likely to present.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#199

Post by nojokes »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #143
tguvot wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And yet we think we got this mRNA/Adenovirus vector formula right on the first try times 3 different brands with 2 years of reduced trials? Actually mRNA vaccines/tech been in development and trials for a long time (decades). What was done in last year is to encode specific mRNA and trial it. Not the entire "envelope". Nice historical overview: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

> Actually mRNA vaccines/tech been in development and trials for a long time (decades). Obviously the parent was not referring to the entire development history of mRNA tech, any more than one would include the initial work on inventing the internal combustion engine when talking about how much safety testing had been carried out for a new model car. The usual safety trials were not carried out for these vaccines, fu…

Yes, they were. Each of the vaccines used around 40000 people in their trials. It is an equal to series of crash tests.

But there are effects that are so rare that do not come out unless the medicine is administered to larger group of people.

This is the reason why every approved medicine is kept under extended surveillance.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#200

Post by threeseed »

twofornone wrote: post #136
tessierashpool wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the anti-vax hockey player Josh Archibald recently caught COVID and developed myocarditis as a consequence. It's among the known sequelae. Your risk of myocarditis from COVID is 10x-20x your risk of myocarditis from a vaccine. (One of many many sources: https://twitter.com/awong37/status/1444825498018795521 )

>Your risk of myocarditis from COVID is 10x-20x your risk of myocarditis from a vaccine It really bothers me that people are still touting such numbers around as obvious, indisputable facts given the poor quality of both covid and adverse effect statistical data. 1. What are the odds that you will experience symptoms if you get myocarditis? 2. What are the odds that vaccine induced myocarditis will be reported as suc…

> Why are we putting so much faith into the statements and research of pharmaceutical companies

Nobody is.

Regulators are largely looking at facts on the ground before making decisions.

But since the vaccines are proven to be safe given hundreds of millions of doses there is a lot more willingness to trust them.

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