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Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#121

Post by CheezeIt »

tptacek wrote: post #95
nabla9 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like if you take everything into account, taking the vaccine might not provide any benefit from men under 30. Any medical intervention must be beneficial to justify the use. If it's so and so, or equal risk, then it's not done. EDIT: The alternative is not stopping vaccinations. Men under 30 are given Pfizer.

The number of C19 fatalities under 30 in the US appears to easily exceed the number of vaccine-related myocarditis cases. The overwhelming majority of those myocarditis cases followed a benign course. Later Another thing to consider is that the myocarditis rate from C19 itself may exceed that of the vaccine, which would basically refute the argument against vaccination. (By all means, pick vaccines strategically.)

That number for under 30’s is full of people who are extremely fat or otherwise have preexisting health problems. If you’re under 30 and seemingly healthy your fatality rate is much lower.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#122

Post by bserge »

nabla9 wrote: post #60
yes_man wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-monitoring-myocarditis-... According to Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare, an additional 4 cases per 100k men under the age of 30. They also note that having covid is a risk factor for myocarditis. So perhaps still worth it to take the shot. Possibly they are doing this to put out the antivax wildfires in social media by reacting to statistical information about risks. So a…

It seems like if you take everything into account, taking the vaccine might not provide any benefit from men under 30. Any medical intervention must be beneficial to justify the use. If it's so and so, or equal risk, then it's not done. EDIT: The alternative is not stopping vaccinations. Men under 30 are given Pfizer.

I mean, yeah. If vaccines don't protect against virus spread... Fuck it, let people decide. Either take a vaccine or risk getting Covid in the wild.

Just make it so you can't use a hospital bed in that case. It's only fair to people who are actually forced to go to the hospital, as opposed to gambling for it.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#123

Post by neuronexmachina »

thepasswordis wrote: post #68

In nordic countries these vaccines are restricted. In the US, they're required . Very odd.

Also interesting to note that each of the Nordic countries also has a vaccination rate higher than the US's: https://covid19.healthdata.org/finland?view=vaccinations&tab...

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#124

Post by nabla9 »

zosima wrote: post #119
tptacek wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of C19 fatalities under 30 in the US appears to easily exceed the number of vaccine-related myocarditis cases. The overwhelming majority of those myocarditis cases followed a benign course. Later Another thing to consider is that the myocarditis rate from C19 itself may exceed that of the vaccine, which would basically refute the argument against vaccination. (By all means, pick vaccines strategically.)

But the vast majority of covid fatalities under 30, would be in people with comorbidities. You could easily argue for vaccinating everyone with comorbidities Also, even in apparently benign myocarditis, there may be heart damage which will not become apparent for many years.

Vaccinations are not stopping. Men under 30 are given Pfizer.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#125

Post by AndrewBissell »

noetic_techy wrote: post #110

The problem is that the perception of public trust is eroding significantly the more we learn and the more fervent the mandates become. We pulled the swine flu vaccine for way less back in 2010, I think it was 12 cases of GBS only! The fact that I know of people who have either had mycarditis AND clots tells me the rate is much higher then reported by VAERS. The reason damn near everyone except for adamant anti-vax h…

Actually what happened with the 2010 swine flu vaccine was that people developed narcolepsy starting about a year after the first shots were administered (many of them to people who were never at particularly high risk from the swine flu itself). It took about another year after those symptoms first arose for authorities to acknowledge the link to Pandemrix.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#126

Post by vkou »

l1ambda wrote: post #120
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

> "A Nordic study involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received Moderna Spikevax had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis," he said. I find it frustrating that we’re still not putting numbers on statements like this in news articles. How slight?

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ontario-now-recommend... "Ontario now recommending against Moderna vaccine for men 18-24 years old...This comes after public health officials determined there is a 1 in 5,000 risk of myocarditis — a form of heart inflammation — following a second dose of the Moderna vaccine."

Which is, by the way, still multiple orders of magnitude lower than the risk of myocarditis from catching COVID.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#127

Post by tylersmith »

summerlight wrote: post #83
gorwell wrote: post #59

A lot of comments here asking for specific numbers and making comparisons to other risks. That's exactly how one should be looking at this. What I don't understand is why people don't apply this same critical thought process to the risks of Covid? For example, do you know what the risk of hospitalization from Covid is when unvaccinated? If you said >50%, you would be in good company. It's the most common answer. But…

> But what's the actual risk? > Where did you get that number? As of Sep 29, 2021, US reported 43,289,203 cases where 3,047,033 of them are hospitalized, including vaccinated. This is nowhere close to <1%. I'm pretty sure the number could be much higher with saner medical insurance system.

He's considering the odds of both getting covid, and then ending up in the hospital. There are more than 300mm people in the US, so your chances of both getting covid and then being hospitalized is < 1%. If you already have covid then it's closer to 7%.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#128

Post by basch »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #89
nicoburns wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a young male who got myocarditis from both covid and the vaccine, the other thing that's worth knowing that I wish I'd known earlier: if you do get it, then the best thing to do to prevent long-term damage is to avoid exercise completely (potentially for 6 months to a year, or until you've been cleared by a doctor).

Just out of curiosity, did you get COVID first and then decided to get the vaccine later on? Or was it the other way around? I'm guessing the former - I've had friends who had COVID and their doctors still advised them to get the vaccine - and find it quite troubling if so. We've known for so long now how robust natural immunity is - and before we "knew for sure" any sane person's priors would still assume natural im…

One answer I can think of is if you caught covid and then got regeneron. A month later, after the regeneron wears off, you’d probably want to build up your body’s immunity.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#129

Post by bserge »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #89
nicoburns wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a young male who got myocarditis from both covid and the vaccine, the other thing that's worth knowing that I wish I'd known earlier: if you do get it, then the best thing to do to prevent long-term damage is to avoid exercise completely (potentially for 6 months to a year, or until you've been cleared by a doctor).

Just out of curiosity, did you get COVID first and then decided to get the vaccine later on? Or was it the other way around? I'm guessing the former - I've had friends who had COVID and their doctors still advised them to get the vaccine - and find it quite troubling if so. We've known for so long now how robust natural immunity is - and before we "knew for sure" any sane person's priors would still assume natural im…

Because the officials are fucking cretinoids who can't understand it.

I had Covid, had immunity, and no one gave a flying fuck. I had to follow the same procedures as everyone else. PCR tests up the ass, waste of money, travel blocks.

Half a year later I got the J&J vaccine and had a mild fever for a day (proving my previous infection worked for immunity, just imo). Yet I still wear a fucking mask and shit. At least I have a QR code that I can use to travel...and some countries don't accept J&J as a valid vaccine.

What a fucking joke.

Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine

#130

Post by georgekv »

jimbob45 wrote: post #37

> The cases of myocarditis and pericarditis were "generally mild," and individuals "tend to recover within a short time following standard treatment and rest," Pfizer said in a statement. This is the closest I got to any of the study. If you can link me to the actual study paper, you’re my hero.

Don't have nordic study but here's NEJM Israeli one from the other day:

"In our study, definite or probable cases of myocarditis among persons between the ages of 16 and 19 years within 21 days after the second vaccine dose occurred in approximately 1 of 6637 male recipients"

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109730?query=re...

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