Earlier quoted context omitted.
only numbers are from july, 19 cases of each *carditis after 20m doses.
But how many doses are in men under 30? That is the right subpopulation to look at, not the entire population.
Ask the Swedes, not me.
Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
71–80 of 407 posts
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#72A lot of comments here asking for specific numbers and making comparisons to other risks. That's exactly how one should be looking at this. What I don't understand is why people don't apply this same critical thought process to the risks of Covid? For example, do you know what the risk of hospitalization from Covid is when unvaccinated? If you said >50%, you would be in good company. It's the most common answer. But…
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Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#73A lot of comments here asking for specific numbers and making comparisons to other risks. That's exactly how one should be looking at this. What I don't understand is why people don't apply this same critical thought process to the risks of Covid? For example, do you know what the risk of hospitalization from Covid is when unvaccinated? If you said >50%, you would be in good company. It's the most common answer. But…
Covid has a death rate of around 2% globally. Not sure where you are getting your <1% chance of being hospitalized from.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#74So, they are halting the Moderna vaccine due to myocarditis and recommending the Phizer shot for younger men. Yet, Israel found the Phizer shot lead to myocarditis issues [0]. I wonder what the numbers are and what data decision makers are looking at. [0] https://archive.is/3bZoH/ (NYTimes)
Moderna and Pfizer are both very similar and likely cause Myocarditis for the same reason.
However it's also likely that people will have a worse reaction to Moderna (if they have one) because the vaccine doses are far larger than with Pfizer.
This is born out in the statistics that show that while we see Myocarditis for both vaccines, the prevalence seems to be higher for Moderna.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#75~2.7 cases of myocarditis per 100k. Deadly car crashes in the US is about 11 deaths per 100k (between 3.3 and 25 when looking at states directly, 18.2 worldwide average). That's not even counting indirect deaths caused by car fumes. So to the person posting the same thing from new accounts about vaccines being a great risk to yourself, I hope you take driving and crossing the road as seriously as you take getting vac…
The rate might be higher, but the cluster effect is completely different.
If you're in traffic, the only people you can "spread" a car accident to are the other cars around you. But with infectious disease, you have a chance of spreading it to everybody you contact, all day every day.
You can't sit near somebody on the bus who transmits car accidents to you. Nor can you get in a car accident because your child caught it from school from a classmate whose parent got it from somebody they work with.
Statistically it might make sense, but that's not how the real world works. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#76A lot of comments here asking for specific numbers and making comparisons to other risks. That's exactly how one should be looking at this. What I don't understand is why people don't apply this same critical thought process to the risks of Covid? For example, do you know what the risk of hospitalization from Covid is when unvaccinated? If you said >50%, you would be in good company. It's the most common answer. But…
Or the odds of dying of covid for young people vs a car accident. car accidents are significantly more dangerous.
And before people bring up side effects or other long term damage, most people don’t die in car accidents and suffer from ptsd, whiplash, broken bones etc.
Yet bring this up and you’re automatically an anti Vaxxer.
People are absolutely terrible at evaluating personal risk.
One of my coworkers drove across Canada to visit home at one point instead of taking a flight because of covid.
Young people should be more concerned with staying away from opioids, social media, friends that are racing cars, and binge drinking at parties.
Yet, the media has 14 year olds terrified of covid.
Lunacy.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#77In 6 months we've gone from "vaccines are 100% safe and well tested and there's no chance of long-term side effects whatsoever" to 3 out of 4 "main" vaccines being not recommended for different groups of people. Great for science, not so great for trust in public officials & experts.
All these comments fall to the bottom, which means the majority believes the vaccine is safe and effective. The majority also supports the censorship carried out by all social media platforms. I think it has always been like this. The majority follows what they are told and the minority doesn't get listened to.
It falls to the bottom because it lies about the facts (vaccines were never declared 100% safe and effective) and reaches an incorrect conclusion (if one vaccine is determined to be safer than another, it doesn’t follow that vaccines are objectively unsafe, or that being unvaccinated is safer than being vaccinated).
It’s a silly comment to make, and potentially harmful. The majority of people in this case don’t, on average, “follow what they’re told.” They’re very capable of evaluating facts and data and responding accordingly. That’s what’s happening here.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#78~2.7 cases of myocarditis per 100k. Deadly car crashes in the US is about 11 deaths per 100k (between 3.3 and 25 when looking at states directly, 18.2 worldwide average). That's not even counting indirect deaths caused by car fumes. So to the person posting the same thing from new accounts about vaccines being a great risk to yourself, I hope you take driving and crossing the road as seriously as you take getting vac…
The risk profiles are different, since one is multiplicative and one is additive. One car crash won't cause 100,000 car crashes, but an infectious disease can.
The post you’re replying to is a bit unclear - it’s talking about the risk of contracting myocarditis, not COVID.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
The study is preliminary - but they're being cautious and recommending young men switch to the Pfizer vaccine since the risk of myocarditis is lower. But just so people don't get the wrong idea, they're finding that the risk of myocarditis in young men who've actually caught Covid is something like 6x more likely than in those who received the vaccine: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v... S…
This isn’t true, the risk for young men 22 and younger from vaccine induced myocarditis exceeds the risk from COVID. Even more true for 17 and younger males: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v... https://www.science.org/news/2021/06/israel-reports-link-bet...
> exceeds the risk from COVID
To be clear the result in the paper is that myocarditis in that age group is greater than hospitalization risk from covid. No?
"For boys 12-17 without medical comorbidities, the likelihood of post vaccination dose two CAE is 162.2 and 94.0/million respectively. This incidence exceeds their expected 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization rate"
There's no result there about myocarditis from covid infection.
Re: Finland joins Sweden and Denmark in limiting Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
44.1M verified cases in the out of 329.5M ~= 13%, and that's with verified cases, so it's likely much higher. My guess is younger people are even more likely to get it given their lifestyle is highly social at that age, and risk tolerance is similarly high. Given it's not slowing down, the likelihood of getting covid is actually quite high over time.
As with transmissibility, the virulence is not constant over time.
Not to mention as time goes by, many other things are de-risked such as literally our understanding of vaccine side effects and proper mitigations, and new therapies.