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No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

smartindustry.com

21–30 of 64 posts

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#21

I often claim software is a new form of literacy. And I see no-code as the equivalent of cutting up all the frames from marvel comics and tippexing out the speech bubbles, then handing them to some illiterate and saying "hey, you can write your own story now !" It's not how we (as a society) need to handle this. Edit: i.e. that is not empowering the illiterate.

Sorta like Dinosaur Comics with user-generated content? I like it!

https://www.qwantz.com

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#22
post #7

Is no-code the new trend because full automation with AI failed? I wonder if we're trying to realise what jobs actually require skilled labour.

No, it's the trend because it claims to make everything simple while pushing all of the burden back onto the customer. Did I say the quiet part?

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#23
post #19

As someone who does manufacturing automation for a living, I don't think this person has any experience in a manufacturing environment. Coding is really not a limiting factor in manufacturing automation. For decades everything has been built around being controlled by first relay logic and then PLCs, which implement multiple languages like ladder-logic which are basically already drag and drop. Most sensors are simpl…

I worked in this sort of space for awhile. You got it in your last paragraph. Downtime costs money. Not only does downtime cost money, service calls do too. You get a guy who knows exactly how to fix it out on site and he shows up and has the wrong part and he costs 200 bucks an hour. You can burn 4 hours just waiting for a part. We were having a lot of good luck adding some sensors, remote diagnostic, and pre-diagnostic. That way you could schedule a downtime for a part swap out and have the right part on hand. Programming and remote control was near the bottom of that money stack. Like you said most of the stuff is PLC and relay logic. Sometimes you get lucky and there is a decent computer in the middle and you can scan that, but be careful as the 485 line may already be saturated with commands.

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#24
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Php supports browsers?

Can you imagine? The evil twin of JavaScript on the server.

As a PHP programmer I'm offended that you would in imply any similarities between a language that actually has proper objects and JS.

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#26
post #19

As someone who does manufacturing automation for a living, I don't think this person has any experience in a manufacturing environment. Coding is really not a limiting factor in manufacturing automation. For decades everything has been built around being controlled by first relay logic and then PLCs, which implement multiple languages like ladder-logic which are basically already drag and drop. Most sensors are simpl…

> generally coding skill is not particularly lacking

In my experience it is. Sure there are people who can go in and hack some simple code, but they typically know nothing about the clean code style that you need to make millions of lines manageable. They do okay with 500 lines programs where it isn't hard to know the whole, but don't put them on anything more complex

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#27
post #19

As someone who does manufacturing automation for a living, I don't think this person has any experience in a manufacturing environment. Coding is really not a limiting factor in manufacturing automation. For decades everything has been built around being controlled by first relay logic and then PLCs, which implement multiple languages like ladder-logic which are basically already drag and drop. Most sensors are simpl…

When you say G-Code is Assembly-like, you just mean superficially right? I would expect G-Code to be interpreted, not assembled.

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#28
post #19

As someone who does manufacturing automation for a living, I don't think this person has any experience in a manufacturing environment. Coding is really not a limiting factor in manufacturing automation. For decades everything has been built around being controlled by first relay logic and then PLCs, which implement multiple languages like ladder-logic which are basically already drag and drop. Most sensors are simpl…

I worked in this sort of space for awhile. You got it in your last paragraph. Downtime costs money. Not only does downtime cost money, service calls do too. You get a guy who knows exactly how to fix it out on site and he shows up and has the wrong part and he costs 200 bucks an hour. You can burn 4 hours just waiting for a part. We were having a lot of good luck adding some sensors, remote diagnostic, and pre-diagno…

In many ways it’s akin to the reason why SLAs don’t mean shit when they’re business to business. Anybody who breaks even in using a tool doesn’t stay in business for long. They use a tool because the tool -all of the tools - plus the labor costs them a dollar for every 10 they can gross. Your $1000 a month service can hold up or straight up lose $50,000 in revenue, so don’t be surprised if I’m not that happy about you offering to cut us a check for $250 when your stuff shit the bed two days before a hard deadline.

We want the money back guarantee because we think the specter of you making no money will motivate you not to fuck us over. Your guarantees mean next to nothing, and the manpower involved in getting and cashing that check might eat most of it up anyway.

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#29
post #26
post #19

As someone who does manufacturing automation for a living, I don't think this person has any experience in a manufacturing environment. Coding is really not a limiting factor in manufacturing automation. For decades everything has been built around being controlled by first relay logic and then PLCs, which implement multiple languages like ladder-logic which are basically already drag and drop. Most sensors are simpl…

> generally coding skill is not particularly lacking In my experience it is. Sure there are people who can go in and hack some simple code, but they typically know nothing about the clean code style that you need to make millions of lines manageable. They do okay with 500 lines programs where it isn't hard to know the whole, but don't put them on anything more complex

I think this is where standardized DSLs are needed in order to make software an effective and useful tool for nonspecialists. Doing everything in a full-featured programming language is like bringing a fully-loaded aircraft carrier to what is, in most cases, a pocketknife fight. If you only provide a pocketknife, you don't have to worry about accidentally burning down the entire city.

Re: No-code in manufacturing: automation without programming

#30
post #6

> So, what is no-code? No-code development is perfect for engineers who have zero programming knowledge. It’s based on a visual drag-and-drop user interface, with no hand coding required to reach the end goal. It empowers workers to design solutions they need to overcome the challenges they face every day—without writing a single line of code. In 2019, 84% of enterprises across the US, UK, Canada and Australia had al…

So there's really two problems that are being conflated in the phrase "no code":

1. We need a richer library of standardized DSLs for various real-world environments, where the power of a full PL is perhaps too dangerous without excessive training.

2. The method of specifying algorithms in plain text (i.e. "code") is not intuitive or unapproachable for large numbers of people who could otherwise benefit greatly from the ability to "program" the tools they use.

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