Live data from Hacker News

Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

psydef.substack.com

71–80 of 86 posts

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value your critique. You're right that the work does not fully explore these questions. > What makes John more authentic of a character, aren't his drives just as biologically determined, but merely by chance rather than by design? This is a really good question. John is more authentic because he's an individual -- I know, don't scoff yet. He's looking to create a personal connection with Lenina. He doesn't want to…

This really isn't a useful axis of distinction, not least because (iirc) the work under discussion effectively disposes of it during Mond's disquisition. You'd do better to distinguish between John's self-ownership and Lenina's total lack of awareness that she might even have any responsibility of self-determination. That I think is what you're groping toward with this ill-defined, handwavey claim around "individual"…

I appreciate your challenge here. You're right that my reply was handwavy. I'd love to read your analysis of the question if you'd oblige me. I'll also make another attempt as you ask.

I ultimately believe that there's a progression system of consciousness related to the nature of our being. Modifying our being by forming different kinds of attachments and detachments, in the Jungian sense of alchemy, allows us to achieve different states of consciousness. It appears to me that there exists an "enlightened" state of consciousness that is associated with the "perfect being." I believe the greatest achievement and goal of human existence is to transform ourselves into this perfect being, i.e., attain enlightenment.

Lenina has subordinated her prima materia to the macro alchemical work. Whereas John reserves his prima materia and seeks to work it himself in solitude. John is thus on the path to enlightenment, but Lenina has abandoned the path. If John keeps going, he may develop a pure enough being to see the kingdom of God, i.e., attain enlightenment (see Matthew 5:8). This is why John is ultimately superior to Lenina.

The beings of Helmholtz and Bernard offer us perfect examples of superiority and inferiority in being. Bernard is attached to the collective, but his attachment to the collective is not yielding its expected returns -- hence his misery. Helmholtz, on the other hand, is attached to the collective, but the yield on that bond is not enough to complete him: Helmholtz is yearning for a higher state of development, i.e., for a higher state of being.

When Bernard's status is elevated in the collective by his exploitation of John, he is overjoyed and complete. Helmholtz exploits John in a different way: he uses the Shakespeare in John to help him develop his potentialities, i.e., evolve into a higher state of being. The better man is seeking to evolve, while the lesser man yearns to fit in his place.

This is a brief sense of the metaphysics I subscribe to and the judgement it produces.

That's the hackernews comment "attempt" in any case.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy That seems like vapid, temporary happiness to me. Like rockstar, Kurt Cobain, type happiness.

Quite far from it. Have a read!

> Quite far from it. Have a read!

I've read it, along with his entire bibliography as Aldous Huxley has been my favorite author since I read Doors of Perception as 16 year old boy, and I think that both are still highlighting the pitfalls of centralized planning of Society as in the case within Brave New World.

To me both seem like a direct response to the perils outlined in Artic Hay, which is to say that effective centralized planning of Society and Human Organization can be successfully achieved provided you include the basic needs and wants of the Human Condition while catering to it's pleasure seeking nature to make one's servitude acceptable (include Genetic modification as in the case of BnW) all while omitting the need for strife, challenge, and adversity that makes something feel fulfilling for Humans: hence the story of the savage.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#73
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are in a world of Orwell's surveillance devices, lovingly toted by the proles as Huxley suggested.

It seems a lot of literary dystopias have merged and manifested into our current reality. At this point I'm just waiting for someone harpoon at my car as I approach an onramp.

I look forward to applying for citizenship in Mr Lee's Greater Hong Kong

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#75
post #41
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out they were both approximately right about dystopia.

They both missed (but the film Brazil caught) that the dystopia will be run by a bureaucracy of bumbling idiots.

Try some of Kafka's work.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, it is an evolutionary advantage. Perhaps the truth itself is hostile to life... This is one of my favorite things to discuss about this book! See, I enjoy making games and having meaningful interactions with other people, and the world is readily granting me all that. Keeping in mind that (1) I'm NOT The Chosen One, (2) I don't have 600 metric tons of plot armor, and (3) people much wiser and knowledgeable…

Ultimately, I don't think it's a choice. If you fit well into your social role, then you aren't going to seek "the truth." Bernard is more aware of his surroundings because he is not suited to his role. Helmholtz is more aware because he exceeds his role. The way they are and what is expected of them preordained their awakening and its character. As for myself, I've always felt like an alien on earth. As a kid, I tru…

>>As for myself, I've always felt like an alien on earth. As a kid, I truly did not understand why people did what they did. I saw people forming all these social connections, but I couldn't understand why they did it: what were they looking for in others? I've always lived in a world of my own. Patterns, structures, associations, have always interested me more than material things and socialization. If I did not have my inner creative world, then maybe I would have been like the others around me...but I was otherwise occupied and so I became an outsider -- an outworlder.

This is directly on target with how I felt as a kid to late teens. Is this something you talked with others about or maybe read somewhere? I have never came to grips on why it took me longer to understand people. My siblings close my age did well socializing where I felt out of touch.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#77
post #11

Our bodies are this type of utopia. Some billions years ago individual cells evolved to live in collectives. Then they evolved to form specific castes or as we call them tissues. Cancer is a disease where some cells are loosing their caste and multiply. Auto-immune diseases are when the army caste of a body does not serve the collective.

So the next step of evolution might be a hive, Locutus?

Nono Not a hive, slime, slime is the final form

https://twitter.com/EmojiPan/status/1353088799086157835?s=20

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#78

It's a real shame that Huxley's final novel Island , written after his first exposure to actual psychedelics, gets so little press compared to Brave New World . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_(Huxley_novel) But apparently the world wasn't ready for a utopia of Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy.

>Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy That seems like vapid, temporary happiness to me. Like rockstar, Kurt Cobain, type happiness.

Kurt Cobain isn't typically who I would think of when prompted with the phrase "Rockstar Happiness"

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very good point... and are we really awake when we watch T.V.? Or are we in some type of suggestive state? I wrote the above and then did some googling. Found this article: https://www.fastcompany.com/3060491/what-happened-to-my-brai... . I don't know how reputable it is, but here's a quote relevant to this discussion: "There have been EEG studies that demonstrate that television watching converts the brain…

a lot of people seem to source their opinions directly from their preferred flavour of news or opinion show.

What a nightmare. How could we let it get to this point? People that have no direct interest in our well being are informing our worldview.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, I don't think it's a choice. If you fit well into your social role, then you aren't going to seek "the truth." Bernard is more aware of his surroundings because he is not suited to his role. Helmholtz is more aware because he exceeds his role. The way they are and what is expected of them preordained their awakening and its character. As for myself, I've always felt like an alien on earth. As a kid, I tru…

>>As for myself, I've always felt like an alien on earth. As a kid, I truly did not understand why people did what they did. I saw people forming all these social connections, but I couldn't understand why they did it: what were they looking for in others? I've always lived in a world of my own. Patterns, structures, associations, have always interested me more than material things and socialization. If I did not hav…

Maybe I'm on the autistic spectrum or something. That's why I gravitated to programming.
Post reply on HN