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Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

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Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#61

Post by leto_ii »

dendriti wrote: post #33
leto_ii wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds a lot like the Netherlands It's almost a relief to see I'm not the only one having this view. I've been living in NL for the better part of a decade now and to most of the people back home (one of those terrible 'former Eastern Bloc' countries) I sound like a complete lunatic when I bring up similar impressions. I guess an ideal place would have to be as functional as the Netherlands and yet far less soul…

Ironically, this stance (that lack of conflict equates to lack of soul) may only be possible after one has become accustomed to a peaceful and stable life.

> that lack of conflict equates to lack of soul

Yeah, I realize the attitude is a bit simplistic. It's certainly true that serious conflict is way worse than boring mild-dystopia.

I'm thinking however of someplace like the 'second-tier' rich European countries - the Northern Meditteranean, perhaps even a few former 'Eastern Bloc' places. Those might have a better balance.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#62

Post by Anon84 »

dustintrex wrote: post #50

It's a real shame that Huxley's final novel Island , written after his first exposure to actual psychedelics, gets so little press compared to Brave New World . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_(Huxley_novel) But apparently the world wasn't ready for a utopia of Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy.

Another of Huxley's books that's shamefully unknown is "The Perennial Philosophy" https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061724947?ie=UTF8&linkCod... where fleshes out the teachings of major religious traditions

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#63

Post by Jibbedeyeah »

dustintrex wrote: post #50

It's a real shame that Huxley's final novel Island , written after his first exposure to actual psychedelics, gets so little press compared to Brave New World . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_(Huxley_novel) But apparently the world wasn't ready for a utopia of Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy.

>Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy

That seems like vapid, temporary happiness to me. Like rockstar, Kurt Cobain, type happiness.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#64

Post by WriterGuy2021 »

cryptica wrote: post #26
antihipocrat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't too impressed with the writing, especially after hearing so much about the book. However, I think it provides an interesting alternative to the fear based absolute authoritarian control used by governments to varying effect currently and throughout history. Huxley's description of a biological determinant (arbitrary or otherwise) as the basis upon which to build a discriminatory caste system for all of human…

Were we're heading, we will wish that discrimination was based on biological factors. Instead, it will be based on mental factors. Cruelty, deception, hypocrisy, psychopathy, inhumanity will be rewarded. The determinant of class will be good and evil, with evil at the top. At the top, there will exist a form of altruism so superficial and devoid of substance that only insane people will be able to join the elite clas…

I have a book recommendation for you: book of Ephesians in the bible.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." - Ephesians 6:12

Today we're calling it "mentally unstable" or "psychotic" or "sociopatic," but yesterday we simply called it "evil."

It's the eternal struggle.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#65

Post by dustintrex »

Jibbedeyeah wrote: post #63
dustintrex wrote: post #50

It's a real shame that Huxley's final novel Island , written after his first exposure to actual psychedelics, gets so little press compared to Brave New World . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_(Huxley_novel) But apparently the world wasn't ready for a utopia of Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy.

>Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy That seems like vapid, temporary happiness to me. Like rockstar, Kurt Cobain, type happiness.

Quite far from it. Have a read!

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#66

Post by beaconstudios »

WriterGuy2021 wrote: post #29
XorNot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypnopedia was really just continuous repetition of "facts" until they were an autonomous response. I'd say he was pretty damn close.

That's a very good point... and are we really awake when we watch T.V.? Or are we in some type of suggestive state? I wrote the above and then did some googling. Found this article: https://www.fastcompany.com/3060491/what-happened-to-my-brai... . I don't know how reputable it is, but here's a quote relevant to this discussion: "There have been EEG studies that demonstrate that television watching converts the brain…

a lot of people seem to source their opinions directly from their preferred flavour of news or opinion show.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#67

Post by throwanem »

psydefbooks wrote: post #39
Barrin92 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean don't get me wrong, I don't think he's sexist or racist (at least not any more than most of his peers at the time) but I don't think he actually transcends his anxieties or sentimentality. What the book boils down to, and you touch on it a few times, is a criticism of manufactured society. But the book never gives this a fair shake. John's experience is authentic because it is 'natural', synthetic desires are…

I value your critique. You're right that the work does not fully explore these questions. > What makes John more authentic of a character, aren't his drives just as biologically determined, but merely by chance rather than by design? This is a really good question. John is more authentic because he's an individual -- I know, don't scoff yet. He's looking to create a personal connection with Lenina. He doesn't want to…

This really isn't a useful axis of distinction, not least because (iirc) the work under discussion effectively disposes of it during Mond's disquisition. You'd do better to distinguish between John's self-ownership and Lenina's total lack of awareness that she might even have any responsibility of self-determination. That I think is what you're groping toward with this ill-defined, handwavey claim around "individual".

You'd likewise do better to look further beyond the text - you have, after all, a century of perspective on which to draw, but your analysis reads as if uninformed by anything newer than Nietzsche or maybe Evola. Whether that's intentional I've no idea, but either way it seems to have caused you a harder time finding anything new to say here.

You can, I hope, do better than "hedonistic nihilism is bad actually", and I'd be interested to see what might come of the attempt.

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#68

Post by ivankolev »

dustintrex wrote: post #50

It's a real shame that Huxley's final novel Island , written after his first exposure to actual psychedelics, gets so little press compared to Brave New World . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_(Huxley_novel) But apparently the world wasn't ready for a utopia of Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy.

On your last note, I felt Heinlein tripped on something similar while writing Time enough for love[0]. I haven't read Island, I'll put it on my list.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Enough_for_Love

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#69

Post by hyper_reality »

dustintrex wrote: post #50

It's a real shame that Huxley's final novel Island , written after his first exposure to actual psychedelics, gets so little press compared to Brave New World . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_(Huxley_novel) But apparently the world wasn't ready for a utopia of Tantric sex and drugs where people are genuinely happy.

Transhumanist philosopher David Pearce has a fascinating piece arguing along these lines. The dystopic Brave New World "has come to serve as the false symbol for any regime of universal happiness", and Island offers a counterpoint, however hardly anybody has read it compared to Brave New World: https://www.huxley.net/

Re: Remembering Huxley's “Brave New World”

#70

Post by decasteve »

gremloni wrote: post #36
Barrin92 wrote: post #13

BNW remains to this day one of my biggest disappointments when it comes to the classics. I remember reading it maybe fifteen years ago and I went in with this expectation to read this brilliant critique of modern consumer society everyone was referencing, what did I get? The antagonists of the book are called Marx, Lenina and Mustapha (read: muslims, women and commies running the world government), and the hero is a…

Calling the caste system a higher form of social organization compared to monogamy couldn’t make me disagree with your perspective more. Additionally I share Huxley’s belief and preference for a pastoral lifestyle and the odiousness of a feminized society. Your classification of child rearing as a “burden” doesn’t make your views palatable. The only things we agree on are that I like the heads of the one world govern…

The warning from Huxley is regarding what happens when the choice of child rearing (and bearing) are removed by both government and social pressures. He explores this to the extreme but many aspects of his thought experiment in Brave New World exist today.

More and more of child rearing is controlled by state institutions: child care, preschool, grade school, trade school, university, sports/activities, work, etc. Some are mandatory and some people are left with no other choice, e.g. both parents have to work to make ends meet, extended families live farther apart. A mother or father working as homemakers and child rearers are negatively viewed and social pressure mounts against one who chooses to do so (speaking from experience).

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