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Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

advantaira.com

41–50 of 306 posts

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#41

The income has already been taxed. The economics are identical to other qualified retirement plans. This is simply more about restricting freedoms and making excuses for targeting Peter Thiel personally.

Restricting the freedom to dodge taxes...

... taxation is theft.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#42
post #22
post #11

>Under these provisions, you would no longer be allowed to invest your IRA into private placements and single-member LLCs, regardless of your level of income or wealth. Huh. So under current law, you can take your IRA money and "invest" it in a single-member LLC? Wild. Does that let you circumvent the proscription against living in properties you own through your IRA? Since in that case, the "owner" would be the LLC,…

No it doesn't as that would fall under the rules for prohibited transactions of which there are strict rules and penalties. See https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employ... .

It says that those types of transactions are prohibited between the plan and a disqualified person.

Does it prohibit those same transactions between an investment within the plan (like an LLC) and a disqualified person?

I mean, if I own Apple stock, I can buy things in the Apple store.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#43
post #19

Presumably meant to address high net worth individuals completely dodging taxation on huge gains by using their IRAs for investments like exercising early-stage stock options.[1] I kind of wish they'd go with just capping the gains, but would I still say that if I wasn't planning to use mine to "fund" high-return cryptocurrency arbitrages? 1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2021/06/24/peter-th...

What I like about Congress - is instead of saying "this provision can allow you to do well for retirement by investing in private companies self directed with an IRA and you might not need social security". Instead they act: "we're not rich, we're mad at the few who are - so instead of teaching you how to do this, we're going to make it illegal"

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#44
post #32
post #19

Presumably meant to address high net worth individuals completely dodging taxation on huge gains by using their IRAs for investments like exercising early-stage stock options.[1] I kind of wish they'd go with just capping the gains, but would I still say that if I wasn't planning to use mine to "fund" high-return cryptocurrency arbitrages? 1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2021/06/24/peter-th...

Assume this is meant to capture the Mitt Romney scenario. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/whats-r...

Peter Thiel has a $5 billion Roth IRA

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#45

The income has already been taxed. The economics are identical to other qualified retirement plans. This is simply more about restricting freedoms and making excuses for targeting Peter Thiel personally.

> The income has already been taxed

This is not true - traditional IRA contributions are made pre-tax.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#46
post #32
post #19

Presumably meant to address high net worth individuals completely dodging taxation on huge gains by using their IRAs for investments like exercising early-stage stock options.[1] I kind of wish they'd go with just capping the gains, but would I still say that if I wasn't planning to use mine to "fund" high-return cryptocurrency arbitrages? 1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2021/06/24/peter-th...

Assume this is meant to capture the Mitt Romney scenario. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/whats-r...

More recently, ProPublica showed that Peter Thiel (and others) did the same thing. Thiel amassed $5 Billion into an IRA that's nominally capped at $6k/year in contributions.

https://www.propublica.org/article/lord-of-the-roths-how-tec...

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#47
post #8
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really an issue for low- to middle-income earners, or is that just a scare tactic?

This has no impact on the average person in the low to middle class income range. This is just a loophole allowing the rich to put a bunch of money into their IRAs and watch it grow in a tax advantaged way. The average person that's putting the max of $6k (or less) into their IRA is not impacted by this and it's business as usual for them. I believe this is in response to people like Peter Thiel https://www.propublic…

So your argument is: the law is restrictive enough that poor people are going to stay poor, thus you can safely ignore the consequences for them and create additional laws to restrict “rich” people. An extraordinary entitled and comfortable perspective shines through strongly here.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#49
post #40

One of my more controversial opinions is that tax advantaged retirement accounts should be eliminated entirely. Almost all of the advantages of them accrue to the top decile of income earners. Why should we have exceptions in the tax code just to help richer people amass more money?

I have a product idea to take roths mass market. Might help with what you’re describing.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#50
post #8
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really an issue for low- to middle-income earners, or is that just a scare tactic?

This has no impact on the average person in the low to middle class income range. This is just a loophole allowing the rich to put a bunch of money into their IRAs and watch it grow in a tax advantaged way. The average person that's putting the max of $6k (or less) into their IRA is not impacted by this and it's business as usual for them. I believe this is in response to people like Peter Thiel https://www.propublic…

Does the fact that more rich do it mean it's wrong? Or that low and middle income should use it as a model and the practice should be encouraged? I mean, if private citizens can build themselves up without being beholden to social security and Wall Street - why is this bad?

What if - instead of the government keeping us to the lowest common denominator (social security) they encourage, educate, and allow everyone to be their highest common denominator?

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