Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions • Hacker News Board

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#221

Post by Nextgrid » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

hnlmorg wrote: post #204

Nextgrid wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This severely underestimates the complexity of the Linux kernel.

We're not talking about modern Linux though. Modern Linux isn't "coordinated by a (admittably singlularly competent) sole finnish guy in a bathrobe from home," , there's now a team of people involved. Sure there is a hierarchy with someone taking the lead but isn't that true for most operations? Even the Mozilla foundation has a Chair (Mitchell Baker) and Executive Director (Mark Surman). Linux hasn't been a single p…

The "guy in a bathrobe" is still the lead and has the final say. Is he compensated anywhere near what Mozilla's CEO is?

In fact is the total comp of all the people significantly involved in Linux kernel development anywhere near the total comp of Mozilla's C-suite? I doubt it.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#222

Post by rightbyte » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

melomal wrote: post #63

sersi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, I would not mind paying 50 usd a year (it's what I already have paid in donation for mozilla).

1 user at $4.16 per month is not going to help, support and develop a competitive browser or search engine. 1mn users paying $4/m is going to be just over $40mn per year. There's no way any company can compete with MS or Google on that revenue stream. Get investors and they will enforce whatever it takes to build revenue = ads.

The main software design problem Mozilla is facing is their urge to add user hostile anti-feutures. MS and especially Google are way better at those, so why compete on that? It is a losing game ...

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#223

Post by hiisukun » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

Regardless of how I personally will use Firefox and adjust its settings, this change makes me less likely to suggest it as a browser to friends and relatives.

It still has enough large advantages that I will continue to use it (especially on mobile, with extensions), but I'm just one person. Those less knowledgeable about computers in my friends and family make up a lot more potential Firefox users, and they are the ones at risk with this kind of change.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#224

Post by bodge5000 » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

samizdis wrote: post #128

eCa wrote: post #4

As someone who has used Firefox since v0.* I really, really, really dislike the language they have used lately. > relevant suggestions from our trusted partners The suggestions are not relevant to, and the partners not trusted by, me.

> I really, really, really dislike the language they have used lately. That is exactly the problem I have with it - weasel words and euphemisms; FF is scoring an own-goal here and eroding trust. Why not just tell it like it is. "We need funding and are lining up deals with third parties to display their ads/messaging in the address bar search. We vet these third parties by holding them contractually to these standard…

> Why not tell it like it is

I'm no expert, but from what I've heard the reasoning is that ad companies don't like it when you do that and won't want to work with you. They'd rather FF says "we love these guys and they just happen to be handing us bags of money" rather than "look, we dont like this anymore than you do but we need the cash".

Not excusing it, and I could well be wrong (there could also be a way of saying it that satisfies both parties), but thats my understanding of the rationale

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#225

Post by vadfa » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:40 AM UTC

exar0815 wrote: post #85

By the love of all thats holy, I still don't understand how the development of an entire operating system can be reasonably coordinated by a (admittably singlularly competent) sole finnish guy in a bathrobe from home, while a comparably simple webbrowser needs a foundation, a company, a ceo, a code of conduct, all those outreach and social-action programmes etc... Or maybe, is all that cesspool of ineffectiveness and…

Chrome keeps adding more and more features to the web standards to make sure no one else can keep up with the price of implementing them, and Mozilla likes sucking Google's cock until they gag, so they accept and put all of them in Firefox.

Not to mention all the absurd overhead you pointed out.

All of Mozilla's wounds are self-inflicted.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#226

Post by robteix » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:40 AM UTC

Kreotiko wrote: post #58

I tried moving away from Safari but I can’t find anything equally good. Damn Apple

I’d love to be able to stick to Safari. It’s an awesome browser, except that not having any form of multi-profile support makes it impossible for me to use. It’s really its only showstopper for me.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#227

Post by silvestrov » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:40 AM UTC

samizdis wrote: post #128

eCa wrote: post #4

As someone who has used Firefox since v0.* I really, really, really dislike the language they have used lately. > relevant suggestions from our trusted partners The suggestions are not relevant to, and the partners not trusted by, me.

> I really, really, really dislike the language they have used lately. That is exactly the problem I have with it - weasel words and euphemisms; FF is scoring an own-goal here and eroding trust. Why not just tell it like it is. "We need funding and are lining up deals with third parties to display their ads/messaging in the address bar search. We vet these third parties by holding them contractually to these standard…

> Why not just tell it like it is.

Because they don't want to say: "we want a lot of money to all kinds of projects irrelevant to the browser".

They should focus on their core product and cut everything else away.

Instead they are an organization that tries to save the whole world. It seems like they think the jobs created for themselves by "saving the world" is the core business and Firefox is just a cash-cow for this.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#228

Post by anotherboffin » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:41 AM UTC

hnlmorg wrote: post #204

Nextgrid wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This severely underestimates the complexity of the Linux kernel.

We're not talking about modern Linux though. Modern Linux isn't "coordinated by a (admittably singlularly competent) sole finnish guy in a bathrobe from home," , there's now a team of people involved. Sure there is a hierarchy with someone taking the lead but isn't that true for most operations? Even the Mozilla foundation has a Chair (Mitchell Baker) and Executive Director (Mark Surman). Linux hasn't been a single p…

OP mentioned “reasonably coordinated by” and, to my understanding, never implied Linux was a single-person operation.

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#229

Post by commoner » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:41 AM UTC

absove wrote: post #93

dropmann wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example because Chrome treats Google cookies differently [1]? This is a red flag for people. With Firefox you at least know what you get. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18064537

Wasn't there some google cookie in firefox that couldn't be deleted at some point, related to safe browsing? Then when people kept complaining they just hid it from the UI? I honestly don't know what the situation is now though.

Yes, Google sends a cookie in the responses from its Safe Browsing service. As of Firefox 27 (released in February 2014), Firefox has sandboxed the Google Safe Browsing cookie in a separate cookie jar, isolated from normal web browsing.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=368255#c61

Re: Mozilla to put ads in Firefox address bar suggestions

#230

Post by roca » Thu, Oct 07, 2021, 9:41 AM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #186

roca wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the page that you apparently didn't read, it's based on the search text you typed and your city location.

So, Once enabled, Firefox Suggest sends what I type in the address bar to Mozilla. There it gets augmented with my location and makes its way to their "preferred partners", limited, for the moment, to a lovely establishment called "adMarketplace". You don't see a slightest problem with that, no? Reading through their "how Mozilla handles data" page [1] reveals absolutely nothing specific. What's collected, what's bei…

> You don't see a slightest problem with that, no?

If adMarketplace is just receiving from Mozilla a stream of (search text, city, clicked yes/no) then no, I don't see a problem with it.

If Mozilla sends a unique user ID as well then I would see a problem with it, but as far as I can tell, they don't.