Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad • Hacker News Board

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#81

Post by yaaqmon » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 5:48 PM UTC

Very interesting experiment on an already interesting experiment.

Would everyone be up in arms if he didn't publish how he did it on his blog and publicly post the code on github and instead used it to buy himself coffee for life?

He saw a "flaw" in the system and is publicizing it. Sounds pretty holy to me. Certainly holier than buying yourself a luxury item from an exploiting corporation, meanwhile deluding yourself into thinking you're doing something good for society by donating 5 bucks to said cause.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#82

Post by funkah » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 5:52 PM UTC

sequoia wrote: post #7

"Or am I alone in thinking that helping a stranger find their next caffeine fix is not what we should be worried about in today's world?" sigh This is such a silly, stupid point to make: Buying an iPad? What about world hunger!? Going to the movies? What about the modern slave trade!? Painting a picture? Women in Sudanese refugee camps can't go to the bathroom at night without fear of rape, and here you painting a pi…

I know what you mean, but the original Jonathan's Card thing made it seem like buying someone Starbucks was the height of charity when it's actually quite frivolous. At least this idea is real charity. It's still in the spirit of Jonathan's Card, but actually does some small amount of good for the world.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#83

Post by oflannabhra » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 5:54 PM UTC

aneth wrote: post #13

This seems like an unauthorized use of the card and could be criminal theft. If I give you my stored value card to buy coffee and you instead steal all the money, it doesn't matter whether you're donating to charity or disagree with my cause - it's stealing. Regardless, it's certainly a shitty thing to do.

Legally, I think the only issue this runs afoul of is his auctioning of a giftcard. Most giftcards do not allow this; however, most gift cards don't allow you to purchase other giftcards with them either, so Starbucks might not have as strict rules about their cards.

Morally, though, I agree this is all kinds of wrong.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#84

Post by blhack » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 5:55 PM UTC

sequoia wrote: post #7

"Or am I alone in thinking that helping a stranger find their next caffeine fix is not what we should be worried about in today's world?" sigh This is such a silly, stupid point to make: Buying an iPad? What about world hunger!? Going to the movies? What about the modern slave trade!? Painting a picture? Women in Sudanese refugee camps can't go to the bathroom at night without fear of rape, and here you painting a pi…

Read this: http://www.utilitarian.net/singer/by/199704--.htm

It's about utilitarianism, I think you'll like it, it's making the same point you are.

(It's called "The Shallow Pond and The Drowing Child - By Peter Singer")

edit: (If you read the paper, it's discussing exactly what parent was describing, and is completely relevant to the discussion)

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#85

Post by burgerbrain » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 5:55 PM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #48

Udo wrote: post #20

So essentially you're proud of stealing huge amounts of money from a fund set up by people for a specific purpose, and then you channel this money to suit your own needs while claiming moral superiority ? You know, even if the money you stole for "the little children OMG think of the children" really reaches the intended recipients, which it probably won't if this is a typical 3rd world development fund, you still be…

Jonathan said it was a social experiment. This, and people's reaction to it, is part of that.

The social experiment revealed that there are in fact people miserable enough in this world to senselessly steal from such a good will fund. In fact, so miserable that they see fit to even brag about it and pretend to themselves their actions were noble. The experiment revealed that the name of one such miserable person is Sam Odio.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#86

Post by dreamdu5t » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 5:58 PM UTC

Awesome. What a hack. Can everyone please shutup with their dumb subjective value judgements already? Grow up, these were both fun, benign, experiments.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#87

Post by mkopinsky » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 5:59 PM UTC

beaumartinez wrote: post #56

AndrewWarner wrote: post #39

Cached copy of the page: http://bit.ly/pKIoGi

Whoa, a bit.ly link? Was that really necessary?

Excuse my ignorance, but what's wrong with bit.ly? Or are you simply objecting to the need to shorten the URL?

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#88

Post by gregschlom » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 6:00 PM UTC

I personnally never donated anything significant to charity. I haven't tried Jonathan's card either (for lack of time), but if I had, I can picture how I would have felt, and how it would have changed my views on human nature and altruism.

Jonathan's experiment was letting people experience other people's generosity and let that change their minds.

And then Sam comes and ruins everyhting. And he's totally convinced that he's doing the Good Thing.

You're not, Sam. You are destroying an opportunity for people like me to become less individualistic assholes.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#89

Post by blhack » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 6:01 PM UTC

God I hate this mentality.

Yeah, you can exploit this, but are you doing anything fun or interesting by it?

I live in a community that has a lot of cyclists in it. If I'm at home, I tend to spend a lot of time on my front porch working on my bikes with my friends. Most of them know that I keep some tools slightly "hidden" there, and I've told all of my friends that they're welcome to come over and use them if I'm ever not there.

Could they steal these tools?

Yep.

Would they would demonstrating some OMG SECURITY HOLE in my "Ryan's Porch" scheme?

No. They'd be acting like assholes, which is exactly what this guy is doing.

I'm an amateur locksmith. I usually keep a half diamond pick and a torsion wrench in my car, and sometimes I even carry it in my pocket. Could I steal half of the bikes locked up across the street from my house?

Could I break into buildings and steal things from them?

What if I donated the money to poor people?!

Sam Odio, you're being a jerk here. Knock it off.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#90

Post by kwis » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 6:02 PM UTC

Sam_Odio wrote: post #32

sequoia wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think that's great. Honestly I think it's awesome how he's redirecting this money from Starbucks to a worthwhile cause. BUT he can do that without the holier-than-thou attitude; the latter is not a requirement for the former. :) Basically I've heard that line before ("how can you X when Y is going on in the world??") and it's basically just a way to feel morally superior and boost your ego, it doesn't actually…

That's a valid point. But is pursuing art (or whatsver) admitting to yourself that you value art more than world hunger? After all, that's how you're allocating your resources. Fwiw, anyone who knows me know I don't have a holier-than-thou attitude (though I took one for this post). This was mostly meant as an edgy/controversial twist to the social experiment: how do peoople react when someone takes the money (which…

You know nothing about the people you judged except that they threw a coffee into a virtual 'give a coffee / take a coffee' tray. And from that, you've extrapolated that they care more about art than world hunger.

That's as illogical as it is self-righteous.