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Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

sam.odio.com

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Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#31

Post by mzahir »

sequoia wrote: post #12
nhangen wrote: post #6

Yeah, it's cool, but also nefarious, charity or not.

Not really... I don't think that the people who put money on the card have any claim to determine how the money is used. It's like giving a gift, once you give it you don't get to control it anymore, and they are giving a gift to an anonymous recipient. If they want to control how the money is spent... perhaps don't put it on a publicly accessible debit card? ;)

It's not like giving a gift. It's making a donation for a specific cause and then having the funds misspent on something different. The publicly accessible debit card was part of the 'social experiment' which seems to result in what we already knew a long time ago. People are happy to abuse the system for what they believe to be the greater good.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#32

Post by Sam_Odio »

sequoia wrote: post #19
philfreo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? He is donating to a charity focused on world hunger...

Yeah I think that's great. Honestly I think it's awesome how he's redirecting this money from Starbucks to a worthwhile cause. BUT he can do that without the holier-than-thou attitude; the latter is not a requirement for the former. :) Basically I've heard that line before ("how can you X when Y is going on in the world??") and it's basically just a way to feel morally superior and boost your ego, it doesn't actually…

That's a valid point. But is pursuing art (or whatsver) admitting to yourself that you value art more than world hunger? After all, that's how you're allocating your resources.

Fwiw, anyone who knows me know I don't have a holier-than-thou attitude (though I took one for this post). This was mostly meant as an edgy/controversial twist to the social experiment: how do peoople react when someone takes the money (which is a public good) and imposes their own morals on it (even if it's for good)?

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#34

Post by Triumvark »

sequoia wrote: post #7

"Or am I alone in thinking that helping a stranger find their next caffeine fix is not what we should be worried about in today's world?" sigh This is such a silly, stupid point to make: Buying an iPad? What about world hunger!? Going to the movies? What about the modern slave trade!? Painting a picture? Women in Sudanese refugee camps can't go to the bathroom at night without fear of rape, and here you painting a pi…

Eh, I found Jonathan's "Buying yuppies coffee will improve the world!" naivete far more offensive.

I didn't see OP as criticizing frivolity, I saw him more criticizing Jonathan's suggestion that this game was meaningfully altruistic.

Eye of the beholder I guess.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#35

Post by aneth »

sequoia wrote: post #26
aneth wrote: post #13

This seems like an unauthorized use of the card and could be criminal theft. If I give you my stored value card to buy coffee and you instead steal all the money, it doesn't matter whether you're donating to charity or disagree with my cause - it's stealing. Regardless, it's certainly a shitty thing to do.

You no longer control the money once you donate it to an anonymous recipient! You don't get to choose how the money is spent. If you're not comfortable with that, don't put money on a publicly accessible debit card!!

I'm not sure that's the case here. It's not an anonymous recipient, it's Jonathan's stored value card and therefore Jonathan. Jonathan authorized anyone to use his card to buy coffee. He did not authorize anyone to steal his money.

Another way to look at it is as a common fund dedicated to the purpose of buying coffee. Using it for anything else seems like embezzlement.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#36

Post by peteretep »

sequoia wrote: post #26
aneth wrote: post #13

This seems like an unauthorized use of the card and could be criminal theft. If I give you my stored value card to buy coffee and you instead steal all the money, it doesn't matter whether you're donating to charity or disagree with my cause - it's stealing. Regardless, it's certainly a shitty thing to do.

You no longer control the money once you donate it to an anonymous recipient! You don't get to choose how the money is spent. If you're not comfortable with that, don't put money on a publicly accessible debit card!!

That may be your opinion. I suspect in the UK you might well fall foul of the Computer Misuse act:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/18/section/1

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#37

Post by sequoia »

mzahir wrote: post #31
sequoia wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really... I don't think that the people who put money on the card have any claim to determine how the money is used. It's like giving a gift, once you give it you don't get to control it anymore, and they are giving a gift to an anonymous recipient. If they want to control how the money is spent... perhaps don't put it on a publicly accessible debit card? ;)

It's not like giving a gift. It's making a donation for a specific cause and then having the funds misspent on something different. The publicly accessible debit card was part of the 'social experiment' which seems to result in what we already knew a long time ago. People are happy to abuse the system for what they believe to be the greater good.

How is what he's doing not "part of the social experiment?"

Q: What happens if you let everyone contribute to and take from a Starbucks card? A: We are in the process of finding out, and the answer wasn't what we expected!

Why isn't this just an interesting, unexpected result? Furthermore, condemning this guy is like condemning Lulzsec for exposing security vulnerabilities. Do you think that no one would have figured this out if OP hadn't? He's exposing the vulnerability and sending the proceeds to charity, would you prefer that Mr. Unscrupulous just silently steals it all?

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#38

Post by sequoia »

Triumvark wrote: post #34
sequoia wrote: post #7

"Or am I alone in thinking that helping a stranger find their next caffeine fix is not what we should be worried about in today's world?" sigh This is such a silly, stupid point to make: Buying an iPad? What about world hunger!? Going to the movies? What about the modern slave trade!? Painting a picture? Women in Sudanese refugee camps can't go to the bathroom at night without fear of rape, and here you painting a pi…

Eh, I found Jonathan's "Buying yuppies coffee will improve the world!" naivete far more offensive. I didn't see OP as criticizing frivolity, I saw him more criticizing Jonathan's suggestion that this game was meaningfully altruistic. Eye of the beholder I guess.

>>Eh, I found Jonathan's "Buying yuppies coffee will improve the world!" naivete far more offensive.

heh... fair enough! In fact, I totally agree. I don't actually know much about the original project, besides the mechanics of it. Perhaps Sam could explain this in the post? as it is he just comes off as condescending for no clear reason.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#40

Post by wccrawford »

oflannabhra wrote: post #33

Great, you donated $600 to kids who really needed it. Next time you get the desire to do so, I suggest you build your own crowd-sourced donation scheme, or donate your own money. Either way, you won't be leeching off of other peoples' hard work.

If I were that charity, I would immediately stand up, return the money, and chastise him for his illegal and unethical actions.
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