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Clean environment could become U.N. human right

reuters.com

51–60 of 152 posts

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has more renewable energy than any one in the world

And what fraction of their energy is that? They probably have more coal plants than anyone else in the world too. Citing raw numbers is pointless when China is involved since everything is so numerous there.

> while China does nothing to address their environmental impact

At least it proves that this statement is untrue.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#52
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US already has stronger rules against vehicle pollution The whole US or only same states?

Generally the rules are stronger and the (post sale) enforcement is weaker (because turning the screws on the poors over a check engine light isn't as tractable for us as it is for Europe, generally speaking).

> Generally the rules are stronger and the enforcement is weaker (because turning the screws on the poors over a check engine light isn't as tractable for us as it is for Europe, generally speaking).

To be fair the amount of Diesel cars on the road in the EU with abhorrently poor emission systems is shocking; I was at VW during dieselgate, and worked with Bosch and VW during the buy-back program and VW are by far the only violators in the EU and in the periphery countries for lacking emission standards.

I was behind mid 2010s diesel Opel for ~35km on my way to Slovenia and I have been in enclosed green houses with diesel tractors so I'm pretty sensitive to it, and it was so absurd that such a thing was allowed on the road.

Typical check engine light failures (P14X/0420) are susceptible to modifications to pass if you know what you are doing, visual inspection isn't always as stringent as you'd think even with the STAR test sites in CA, which has the strictest emission laws in the World. When I was in motorsports we had a series of people we could rely on to pass our respective track-built machines on the road, but ultimately you realize that it's not worth the time, resources or risk and that the car (if properly built) no longer belongs on the road anyway.

As an environmentalist who has struggled with addictions to 'car-caine' I've since downsized from a revolving inventory of 5-6 cars, and 3 motorcycles to one of each: what I think is even tougher is to actually make sensible policy and regulation regarding them without it being simply a way induce needless consumption.

Case in point is the absurd World of the 2-3rd Gen Prius used car market and the catalytic converters, which has always had a lot of theft since it was released but have reached an Worldwide [0] extreme this year due to the astronomical rise in PM prices for those metals (inflationary pressure more than demand) so coupled with the supply chain shortages from Toyota and the rise in sudden demand many cars which were in compliance and within emission specs were simply scrapped because when Toyota couldn't deliver there was no other certified manufacturer for the part and something as simple not having a Toyota stamp was an automatic failure.

Even though some owners reported emission testing within spec of counties within WA or OR which have less stringent standards than CA but still worth noting their compliance. Their insurance policies payout wouldn't cover a similar ranged car purchase and the only alternative was to sell it out of state and use that sum (usually half the cost of properly registered Prius in CA) and to buy another used one.

0: https://www.hotcars.com/heres-why-prius-catalytic-converter-...

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're saying no to a Chinese puppet org (the UN) using clean environment as an attack on them while China does nothing to address their environmental impact.

China has more renewable energy than any one in the world

And they also have the most lax environmental standards. Green energy is nice but allowing business to dump whatever they want into the environment isn't.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#54
post #35

> "At national level, this right has been shown to empower people, particularly those most vulnerable to environmental damage or climate change, to drive change and hold governments to account" Right, so one of the consequences would be that the US gives a bunch of activists permission to use the legal system to harass anything that they like — not just new projects, but everything that exists in the world. Perhaps w…

This is it exactly. Western country have to actually follow the international laws that are put into place. Countries like China just have to claim they follow the laws.

I think we need to take a deep breath and look at our own abuse of the planet. Sadly, even advanced European countries like Italy and Switzerland were found to have participated in toxic dumping in Somalia. https://theecologist.org/2009/mar/01/somalia-used-toxic-dump...

After China stopped accepting plastic waste, we discovered that almost all of the developed nations weren't actually recycling plastic but in reality just dumping it in developing countries. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/28/treated-...

The simple truth is that developed countries aren't exactly following the laws we put into place ourselves when it turns out they inconvenience us.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#55
This would be the ultimate blocking right to any large scale environmental engineering and change. But we will need that ability for change, the latest in a billion years or so...

I don't understand the short-term, anti-growth thinking that has taken hold in recent years (we have been there before with forecasts of impending doom, of course).

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#56
post #35

> "At national level, this right has been shown to empower people, particularly those most vulnerable to environmental damage or climate change, to drive change and hold governments to account" Right, so one of the consequences would be that the US gives a bunch of activists permission to use the legal system to harass anything that they like — not just new projects, but everything that exists in the world. Perhaps w…

This is it exactly. Western country have to actually follow the international laws that are put into place. Countries like China just have to claim they follow the laws.

Are you sure? The wars in Iraq and Libya seems to tell a different story. Or civilians killed by drones, the weapon deals with dictators etc.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#58

The US and Britain aren't saying no to a clean environment - BP, Chevron, and Exxon are.

They're saying no to a Chinese puppet org (the UN) using clean environment as an attack on them while China does nothing to address their environmental impact.

> They're saying no to a Chinese puppet org (the UN)

That's a strong and outright ludicrous statement. The UN's highest body, the Security Council, has 5 permanent security members with veto powers, which includes the UK and US ( alongside China, Russia, France). So China doesn't have any more power over the UN compared to the US.

> using clean environment as an attack on them while China does nothing to address their environmental impact.

China is adressing their environmental impact - most notably in electricity generation where they're replacing coal power plants.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#59

The US and Britain aren't saying no to a clean environment - BP, Chevron, and Exxon are.

They're saying no to a Chinese puppet org (the UN) using clean environment as an attack on them while China does nothing to address their environmental impact.

Don't forget the US, Britain, Russia, and France also have veto authority over whatever as well.

The whole point of this article is that two not China counties are flexing that veto authority and won't hesitate to use it to stop this measure.

Re: Clean environment could become U.N. human right

#60
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unhelpful whataboutery. China isn't directly relevant. I could just as truthfully point out that the USA is a disgusting bully and that would be unhelpful too. We wouldn't think it reasonable if someone on trial for embezzlement asked the jury to acquit because there are other people out in the world committing murder. We only put up with it in news and politics because we have normalized and accepted propaga…

Wrong. The US is not flying bombers capable of carrying nuclear warheads at large populations just to intimidate them.

It does as the sibling commenter pointed out, furthemore it used to fly bombers with nuclear warheads around the clock, nearly bombing itself and its allies numerous times in the process.
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