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Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

forwardparty.com

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Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#221

Post by sbergot »

Karto wrote: post #158

The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…

Macron presented itself as the "reasonable" option between classical left & right & the extreme right.

He seems in a pretty good position as far as poles go. The left will be divided as usual. The right is struggling to find a candidate, has many court cases to deal with, and has yet to find its position relative to the far right. The far right is torn with crazy extremists such as éric zemmour.

While Macron has made many communication mistakes, his success with the vaccine pass and his ability to deliver good speeches at the right time may allow him to win a second mandate. After that his party will probably collapse.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#222

Post by cabalamat »

disneygibson wrote: post #174
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything that's not "controversial" in American politics? Has the whole "evolution" thing been settled yet?

It sticks to fairly uncontroversial things. No mention of abortion, evolution, religion, gun rights, etc. As far as I can see.

> It sticks to fairly uncontroversial things

UBI is hardly without controversy.

> abortion, evolution, religion, gun rights, etc

If Yang took positions on those things it would mostly give people reasons not not support him rather than to support him, thus reducing his (and Forward Party's) overall support.

Yang probably thinks the things he's pushing -- UBI, RCV, etc -- are more important in improving the lives of ordinary Americans than those highly controversial culture-war issues.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#223

Post by dagw »

mschuster91 wrote: post #211
qsort wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect a huge part of Macron's success was his opponent. France elections have a top-2 runoff, and I wouldn't be surprised if many electors were like "I don't like Macron but I really don't want Le Pen to win". The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world.

> The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world. Is it? "Economically middle in the road" is somewhat around classic Social Democrat politics, a staple of European politics. The problem with the classic European Social Democrat parties is that they shot themselves in their feet by a combination of neol…

"Economically middle in the road" is somewhat around classic Social Democrat politics

Even more conservative parties in Europe are moving that way. Just look at the Tories in the UK for example, proposing massive government spending plans paid for by raising taxes.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#224

Post by Hokusai »

qsort wrote: post #196
Karto wrote: post #158

The top line, "Not Left. Not Right. Forward." kind of reminds me of Macron's "En Marche" ("Let's Go") that took over France in a storm, taking over the presidency AND the parliament only one year after its foundation, with very few previously known political figures in its ranks. The whole thing looked like doing management rather than politics, and offered an alternative to fed-up voters who didn't dare turn to the…

I suspect a huge part of Macron's success was his opponent. France elections have a top-2 runoff, and I wouldn't be surprised if many electors were like "I don't like Macron but I really don't want Le Pen to win". The whole "socially progressive, economically middle of the road" political coalition that would win every election on HN is extremely unpopular in the real world.

extremely unpopular in the real -world- USA.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#225

Post by Reason077 »

darkmatterrat wrote: post #65
endisneigh wrote: post #12

One thing people misunderstand about third parties is that they don't need to win. If they're structured correctly (this is by far the most difficult bit), they can have significant political influence without ever winning a single election. For example, love him or hate him, Ralph Nader probably swayed the 2000 Election and had incredible influence over the outcome (for better or worse). Coming back to the Forward P…

That has happen. UKIP forced the Conservative Party in the UK to offer a referendum because their members were voting for UKIP (UKIPs voter share in 2015 hit about approximately 13% of the total vote). Whatever you may think of UKIP https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results However there is several negatives to this: 1) That political party won't get any credit for it. 2) The policy will be implemented hardhea…

> "1) That political party won't get any credit for it. 2) The policy will be implemented hardheartedly. 3) It may destroy your party if one or more of the major issues that the alternative party is implemented."

None of this is a problem if you are a one-issue party. UKIP doesn't need to exist anymore because the cause it was founded on has now been taken up and implemented by "mainstream" politics. UKIP has all but vanished today, but that's precisely because it was successful.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#226

Post by spiralx »

gpm wrote: post #91
jcfrei wrote: post #37

As long as the first-past-the-post voting system is used in the US such movements will go nowhere. Unsurprisingly ranked-choice voting is mentioned as their first core value.

Other countries with first past the post voting regularly manage to have more than two parties. Canada, the UK, etc. I don't think the USes problems can be solely attributed to fist past the post voting (though it certainly doesn't help).

Parliamentary systems still devolve into two-party contests in each district though, it's more that the larger number of districts means that regional parties sometimes takes one of those two slots. At their peak the Lib Dems basically only ever won MPs from a few small regions of the country, mainly Somerset, Sheffield and London. The Greens have their one MP in Brighton, and then the other parties are all regional.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#227

Post by cabalamat »

vintermann wrote: post #151
lalaland1125 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ranked choice has a lot of advantages over the alternatives that are often underestimated by people too worried about theory. The big advantage of ranked choice is that it is simple to understand and implement. In elections, it is essential that the average person understand exactly how the system works. An election result that people don't understand/trust is worse than useless.

No it isn't, technically. I can guarantee you that most people in Norway can't explain the Sainte-Laguë divisors method which delivers proportional representation. What is true, is that simplicity is a propaganda advantage for actually getting it passed, since "It's too complex so we can't trust it" is a good attack line even if it isn't true. I'm not sure that advantage is worth it, given that 1. it's a terribly lon…

> I can guarantee you that most people in Norway can't explain the Sainte-Laguë divisors method which delivers proportional representation.

I expect most could if they spent 5 minutes on Wikipedia researching it. They don't, because they don't want to; most probably regard it as an unimportant implementation detail.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#228

Post by hef19898 »

disneygibson wrote: post #189
hef19898 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the 5th French Republic is going well since the 50s, isn't it? As is the post-war BRD in Germany. Both used to have an Emperor at some point, Italy went from Kingdom to Facist regime to democracy. So yes, if the situation changes you can change your government form. Basing 21st Century politics on something written in the 18th century is... weird. Especially as it is more the interpretation of what the authors…

No, it isn’t weird, it’s simply rejecting the frankly naive notion that you should change everything all the time according to the whims of the populace. History and human nature didn’t begin in 1950. Again, the US has never had anything remotely as horrible as the French Revolution or Nazi Germany. That’s likely a consequence of a constitutional government with limited powers. The United Kingdom is in a very similar…

Ah, the "a republic isn't a democracy" trope. That debunked so often, I won't even go there here. You're right with the french revolution so. Doesn't change the fact the French supported the US a lot.

And yes, the French Revolution is seen, rightly so if you ask me despite the Terror and so on, as the first real modern democracy in Europe. At a time when Europe was reigned by Kings and Emperors.

A side note, I really don't get why Napoleon is seen in such bad light. His Code Civil is to this day the basis of some legal concepts, and was very progressive.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#229

Post by spiralx »

timthorn wrote: post #134
lalaland1125 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that actually work? How did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter? If anything, didn't Biden win by a larger margin against Bernie in 2020 than Hillary won against Bernie in 2016?

Yes, it can do. Without the real threat of UKIP taking votes from the Conservative Party in the UK, David Cameron would not have promised the in/out referendum on EU membership.

It was more to do with appeasing the backbenchers in the 1822 Committee than voters.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#230

Post by spiralx »

SonicScrub wrote: post #51
lalaland1125 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that doesn't appear to happen in practice. For example, how did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter achieve more of the change they wanted in the aligned Democratic Party?

Perhaps a better example is the UKIP party swaying the Tories to become more isolationist, and eventually triggering the Brexit referendum? A little bit different, knowing the political system of the UK enables smaller parties to be successful in a way the American system doesn't. But the principle is still the same. UKIP acting as a spoiler is factored into the strategy of the Tories policy makers, and thus they piv…

Brexit was about Tory backbenchers, not UKIP.
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