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Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

forwardparty.com

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Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#51

Post by SonicScrub »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #33
endisneigh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't necessarily true. The nuance in the third party vs. aligned party is by definition the distinction between them. Depending on what you prioritize an effective third party can force the aligned party to change. From the point of view of the third party supporter, this would be exactly what you would want. In other words, an effective third party can be a great catalyst toward making some minor (or major) ch…

The problem is that doesn't appear to happen in practice. For example, how did Trump winning in 2016 help your average Green Party supporter achieve more of the change they wanted in the aligned Democratic Party?

Perhaps a better example is the UKIP party swaying the Tories to become more isolationist, and eventually triggering the Brexit referendum? A little bit different, knowing the political system of the UK enables smaller parties to be successful in a way the American system doesn't. But the principle is still the same. UKIP acting as a spoiler is factored into the strategy of the Tories policy makers, and thus they pivot their policies more in line with UKIP ideals to prevent bleeding voters to UKIP. A similar dynamic is at play on Canada's left-wing between the Liberals and the NDP

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#52

Post by jimbob45 »

jcfrei wrote: post #37

As long as the first-past-the-post voting system is used in the US such movements will go nowhere. Unsurprisingly ranked-choice voting is mentioned as their first core value.

Right, not only will they go nowhere but they will actively hurt the political party nearest to them ideologically unless those two parties agree to vote together on important issues.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#53

Post by JasonFruit »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #35
tryptophan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

Ranked choice has a lot of advantages over the alternatives that are often underestimated by people too worried about theory. The big advantage of ranked choice is that it is simple to understand and implement. In elections, it is essential that the average person understand exactly how the system works. An election result that people don't understand/trust is worse than useless.

Exactly that! What you cannot have in a trustworthy election is:

    - I vote
    - Something happens in a black box
    - A result emerges that I do not comprehend

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#54

Post by QuercusMax »

wchar_t wrote: post #30

> Cryptocurrencies now represent well over a trillion dollars in wealth. NFTs have created an entire new market, and smart contracts over the blockchain can allow for exciting new ways to transact within the economy. Okay.

Oh boy, you can buy a checksum of a url. And lock up your money so that people can try to scam you if your contract has a bug. Sure seems important compared to healthcare, climate change and the housing crisis.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#55

Post by tryptophan »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21
tryptophan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

Ranked choice seems to be the best one I've read about. Could you help us understand what voting system might be better?

https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/14582/what-argu...

Sums up most of the points about it. I want to highlight the "leads to two party dominance in countries that use it" (australia for example) point. This is exactly what we want to avoid.

I prefer approval or score voting for single member elections as it does away with all these bad voting incentives.

But regardless, I think single member elections are stupid and proportional systems are far better and more democratic. The idea that the thing most representative of you is the piece of land you live on is very outdated. Zweitmandat is the most advanced implementation of proportional representation imo.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#56

Post by didibus »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #21
tryptophan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

Ranked choice seems to be the best one I've read about. Could you help us understand what voting system might be better?

I've seen people argue for Schulze or Ranked pairs over it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulze_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_pairs

The main distinction is that Ranked Choice can elect someone which is not the best compromise of everyone's choices, while Schulze and Ranked pairs will always elect the best compromise of everyone's choices. If there is a candidate who is preferred over the other candidates, when compared in turn with each of the others, they guarantee that candidate will win, while Ranked Choice does not.

The downside to Schulze or Ranked Pairs is that saying that someone is your second choice could hurt the chances of your first choice to be elected, because by putting forward a compromising candidate, and since Schulze or Ranked Pairs optimize for that, you lean the tally towards your potential compromises (which are your second, third, etc. choices) in the case where the election are a "close call".

If I understand correctly.

I personally would prefer a system that optimizes for the compromise, as I think it's more important to get the candidate that the least people dislike, than it is to get the candidate that the most people adore.

So if I understand correctly, it means something like:

If you have A, B and C.

    100% think B is second best.
    40% think A is best.
    19% think B is best.
    41% think C is best.
With Schulze or Ranked Pairs B will win, but with Ranked Choice C will win.

That's because C is most people's first choice, so they win. But if you asked people to pick between C or B, B would technically win, because 19% would pick B (as it is their best), and 40% that think A is best but B is second best would also pick B, thus B vs C would get 59% votes for B and only 41% votes for C, that means that in a vote for B against C, B would win, but with Ranked Choice B loses, and C is elected.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#57

Post by Apocryphon »

spyckie2 wrote: post #45
endisneigh wrote: post #12

One thing people misunderstand about third parties is that they don't need to win. If they're structured correctly (this is by far the most difficult bit), they can have significant political influence without ever winning a single election. For example, love him or hate him, Ralph Nader probably swayed the 2000 Election and had incredible influence over the outcome (for better or worse). Coming back to the Forward P…

This. I think the best way to think about this party is that the goal isn't to win elections (get the majority of votes, beat out the republican/democratic party) - it is to wield influence via a platform. If you think Andrew Yang is establishing a political party to win a government race, I think its a bit too naive. I think he is trying to use a third party lever to influence a bunch of small things to snowball int…

Ranked choice voting in theory patches up the spoiler effect, which will paradoxically make voting third party more appealing.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#58

Post by Uehreka »

tryptophan wrote: post #14
a_t48 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tempted to back them purely for Ranked Choice Voting. Will be keeping an eye on this for the future.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

After watching people freak out when NYC implemented Ranked Choice, I feel like most Americans won’t tolerate anything even slightly more complicated. It’s our only shot.
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