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It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

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Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#51
post #5

> My experience has been that it is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated So, if someone wants to do something to give that person tools to achieve it will be productive. If someone does Not want to do something it is very difficult to talk them into doing it. Makes sense. But I do not know in what context this is discussed our what is the supposed implications.

I agree. It really only suggests that incentives are more important than current skill/information.

a) someone has an incentive to do something, but knows not how

b) someone is very agreeable or pliant in their personality, and is willing to carry out instructions if they don't already know how

c) someone's incentives are not well aligned to do the thing, or are not agreeable/pliant enough to do it anyway, but knows how to do it

If I know how to set up and administer a mail server, under c) I won't do it if there are no incentives (e.g. pay). If I need a mail server, but don't know how to do it, as under a) I will pay someone to do it, or to teach me.

b) is probably quiet and long-suffering, but may never understand the whys and wherefores.

So incentives are probably more important than analyzing things in terms of "doers" vs. "non-doers". Could have implications for hiring policies -- less important that candidate does not have 5 years of Frobnitz framework experience, more important to provide an incentive for the candidate to become proficient.

But I think this was not the point. He said "read what you love until you love to read" which sounds like Stockholm Syndrome. So, I don't really think he was saying anything deeper than "follow your bliss", unfortunately.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#52
post #30

The problem with this phrasing is it implies that motivation is an inherent aspect of individuals. Nobody is a do-er. Motivation is impacted by a variety of factors.

While you're right that motivation isn't purely an inherent trait of the individual, it is certainly a factor. The old nature vs nurture (or circumstance) debate. The answer is usually a mix of both.

There's a neurochemical component to it for sure. Motivation is a complicated process that takes place in the brain, and can be influenced by genetics, lifestyle, and drugs.

Some people's brains are just wired from the beginning to be more of a Do-er. Some people gain that skill through practice or drugs, and some people learn to Do in spite of a brain that seems to be constantly fighting against that.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#53
I have a lot of respect for Carmack but I wish he wouldn't tweet things like this. It just feeds into confirmation bias. You could say the same thing about the work ethic of immigrants... well yes, it's self selecting. Just like the autodidacts who make careers without formal education. For the vast majority of us, an education has huge benefits. And for the hard sciences and math, it's generally just too hard to "do" without learning first.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#54
Partially depends on how skilled you are at educating and at motivating.

Tech is a very thing-oriented and idea-oriented line of work, and motivating others is a people-oriented task. You need to be inclined toward knowing other people and understanding what makes them tick. Then you can show them connection between that and the work you're doing.

There's no reason one person can't be good at all of that, but the field attracts people who are good at the thing-oriented and idea-oriented stuff since that's the main need.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of 3D animation do you want to do? If you're talking about shaders, you might be doing yourself a disservice with the bottom-up approach. In my opinion, learning to use math functions as tools rather than having a deep understanding of how they work is an equally valid approach. I know several great WebGL developers who really aren't very good at math. Consider the following definitions of the dot product:…

(The second definition is also wrong – it's true only for unit vectors.)

If you express your vectors as scalar multiples of unit vectors, it works, right?

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#56

Aside from the fact that the two are not mutually exclusive but rather fit a DE,D!E,!DE,!D!E pairing resulting in a higher number of non-doer (!D) educated (E) people in industry, the statement is quite on point. Being a doer implies that you will by definition get more out of an education.

Being a ‘doer’ is also not a fixed trait. IMO it varies on what a thing happens to be. Motivation and drive also vary over time in complex ways.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#57
post #30

The problem with this phrasing is it implies that motivation is an inherent aspect of individuals. Nobody is a do-er. Motivation is impacted by a variety of factors.

Rephrased it even sounds better:

It's easier to educate the motivated than motivate the educated.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#58

The educated knows that the thing that the CTO asks for is infeasible. Hence the lack of motivation. The Doer in his ignorance, will embark on a trip of endlessly trying satisfy his boss, thinking that they are making progress, but they are not.

Hey, hey, hey! You're stepping on my turf, there! Everyone knows that it's our (old people) job to say "It can't be done!" Younger folks are supposed to be "boundary pushers," because they don't know that it can't be done. They keep trying, until they give birth to beautiful unicorns. Has nothing to do with education, and everything to do with age and [lack of] experience. Disrupt! FTW! At least, that's what they tel…

Giving birth to a unicorn sounds painful.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're right that motivation isn't purely an inherent trait of the individual, it is certainly a factor. The old nature vs nurture (or circumstance) debate. The answer is usually a mix of both.

There's a neurochemical component to it for sure. Motivation is a complicated process that takes place in the brain, and can be influenced by genetics, lifestyle, and drugs. Some people's brains are just wired from the beginning to be more of a Do-er. Some people gain that skill through practice or drugs, and some people learn to Do in spite of a brain that seems to be constantly fighting against that.

Motivation for a particular thing is also highly dependent on your material circumstances. I ski a lot more living by the mountains than I did when I lived two hours away. I ski a lot less than I did before I had kids.

Re: It is easier to educate a Do-er than to motivate the educated

#60

Alternative take: in the hiring process education is often used as a proxy for motivation, when actually it only proves that once upon a time someone was motivated long enough to get educated, but it doesn't actually say anything about their present state in terms of motivation. A 'Do-er' is at least at present motivated, and educating them will get them to the desired combination of education+motivation in the prese…

I remember the joel spolsky hiring article. He wants: smart, gets things done

EDIT: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guid...

on the other hand, here was the quote on choosing officers, which might be a different position altogther:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_von_Hammerstein-Equord#Cl...

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