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In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

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Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#101

Post by arethuza »

forensic wrote: post #91
petercooper wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you're being voted down. I'm in the UK and you're right. If the rioting was being spun as being somehow politically motivated in non British media, that's wrong. There were no political goals here. People wanted new trainers and TVs and a fun night out getting chased by the cops.

>People wanted new trainers and TVs That's a resource distribution issue intimately related to the economy. If that isn't politics, nothing is. Almost all riots are related to resource distribution issues, especially when an impoverished underclass engages in looting. Are you really claiming these riots aren't linked to the massive cuts to public services that happened during the last year?

What hard evidence is there that the public spending cuts led to the riots?

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#102

Post by forensic »

FireBeyond wrote: post #98
forensic wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People wanted new trainers and TVs That's a resource distribution issue intimately related to the economy. If that isn't politics, nothing is. Almost all riots are related to resource distribution issues, especially when an impoverished underclass engages in looting. Are you really claiming these riots aren't linked to the massive cuts to public services that happened during the last year?

The same impoverished underclass with access to Blackberry's and smartphones with data packages who can't afford to put new shoes on their feet? Are you really claiming this?

Bread and circuses didn't work for the Roman Empire either you know.

Phones are not equivalent to:

- medical care

- education

- housing

- sufficient wealth to have children

- healthy food

- self-respect

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#103

Post by petercooper »

forensic wrote: post #91
petercooper wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you're being voted down. I'm in the UK and you're right. If the rioting was being spun as being somehow politically motivated in non British media, that's wrong. There were no political goals here. People wanted new trainers and TVs and a fun night out getting chased by the cops.

>People wanted new trainers and TVs That's a resource distribution issue intimately related to the economy. If that isn't politics, nothing is. Almost all riots are related to resource distribution issues, especially when an impoverished underclass engages in looting. Are you really claiming these riots aren't linked to the massive cuts to public services that happened during the last year?

That's a resource distribution issue

My favorite new politically correct euphemism for the motivation for theft.

Are you really claiming these riots aren't linked to the massive cuts to public services that happened during the last year?

No. But it seems like a leap of reasoning. Was Anders Brevik's rampage "linked" to an influx of immigrants into Norway? Again, a bit of a leap. In both cases I'd be more inclined to believe that the people involved lack sufficient mental health.

But sure, perhaps the daughters of millionaires, school staff, graphic designers, Olympic ambassadors, and law students who have faced the courts already are suffering at the hands of cuts. That's for the sociologists and rehabilitation officers to figure out in the months to come.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#104

Post by forensic »

petercooper wrote: post #103
forensic wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People wanted new trainers and TVs That's a resource distribution issue intimately related to the economy. If that isn't politics, nothing is. Almost all riots are related to resource distribution issues, especially when an impoverished underclass engages in looting. Are you really claiming these riots aren't linked to the massive cuts to public services that happened during the last year?

That's a resource distribution issue My favorite new politically correct euphemism for the motivation for theft. Are you really claiming these riots aren't linked to the massive cuts to public services that happened during the last year? No. But it seems like a leap of reasoning. Was Anders Brevik's rampage "linked" to an influx of immigrants into Norway? Again, a bit of a leap. In both cases I'd be more inclined to…

A lack of mental health is exacerbated by the cuts to social services.

If mental health services were provided to the lower classes AT ALL we would not have these issues.

As it is the majority of the underclass suffers from multiple mental disorders and they cannot get treatment. Mental health treatment is very expensive and is not covered by the government.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#105

Post by MrScruff »

lwhi wrote: post #82
MrScruff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I agree with Cameron, but here are some differences. - Protesting is legal in the UK and happens regularly without undue interference by the police. - The riots in the UK mainly consisted of crimes committed against citizens so they were clearly a policing issue. - They're not proposing shutting of the internet, just the principal vectors used to organise riots. - The rioters were not subject to a violent re…

Use of rubber bullets was authorised after the police finally got their act together. I don't think it was a worthy desire to avoid escalation that prevented their use earlier on .. more lack of organisation. The main question is, how will our government discover whether a citizen is communicating about a forbidden subject? I suppose all communication will need to be explicitly monitored. This is another step closer…

Use of rubber bullets was authorised after the police finally got their act together. I don't think it was a worthy desire to avoid escalation that prevented their use earlier on .. more lack of organisation.

Do you have a source for that? Everything I've read suggested the police were only considering rubber bullets or water cannons as a last resort.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#106

Post by estel »

jwr wrote: post #89
estel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it's controversial to say that the "free flow of information can sometimes be a problem"? Obviously this freedom can cause problems for some at times; but this is a price we pay for a free and open society.

Taken out of context (as you did) it isn't controversial. But in the context of the article linked to it implies that it is a problem that the government needs to do something about by restricting the said free flow of information.

I didn't take the quote out of context any more than you did in the grandparent!

I definitely have a problem with the Government restricting the flow of that information; but that doesn't mean that the flow itself isn't problematic at times.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#107

Post by _delirium »

liedra wrote: post #99
bradgessler wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, wow, I'm dumbfounded. If the British government follows through with this, the rioters will actually have a new reason to riot: freedom of speech.

Not that I agree with the knee-jerk reaction put forward by Cameron, but actually, protesters will protest . There's a big difference between rioting and protesting, and it's important to make that clear.

By horse-charging and kettling peaceful protestors, the UK police have been doing their best to blur the distinction, trying to meet every protest as if it were a riot, and perhaps turn it into one.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#108

Post by cormullion »

forensic wrote: post #96
cormullion wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is starting to generalize wildly about 'Britain'. London + Birmingham is not the same as Britain. The problems of urban Britain are not the same as the problems of Britons outside the major cities. London has 13% of the population. As a member of the underclass in Britain, I resent being called uncivilized. Well, I would if I didn't have a sense of humour. Now, where's my nearest Apple store.

You write too well to be part of the underclass. The underclass is uneducated, mentally ill, has limited access to social services. The real underclass doesn't come to Hacker News; the real underclass typs lik dis- u no- txt speak

Oh, that underclass. Thought you meant the looters:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8696977/London-...

But yes, I agree with you.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#109

Post by forensic »

cormullion wrote: post #108
forensic wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You write too well to be part of the underclass. The underclass is uneducated, mentally ill, has limited access to social services. The real underclass doesn't come to Hacker News; the real underclass typs lik dis- u no- txt speak

Oh, that underclass. Thought you meant the looters: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8696977/London-... But yes, I agree with you.

You missed this part: "One of her co-accused, Alexander Elliot-Joahill, is from a deprived area of south-east London"

Also, anecdotes aren't data.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#110

Post by liedra »

_delirium wrote: post #107
liedra wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I agree with the knee-jerk reaction put forward by Cameron, but actually, protesters will protest . There's a big difference between rioting and protesting, and it's important to make that clear.

By horse-charging and kettling peaceful protestors, the UK police have been doing their best to blur the distinction, trying to meet every protest as if it were a riot, and perhaps turn it into one.

That's a sweeping generalisation. I participated in the big march against cuts and the police were very respectful and only moved to contain those who were participating in violent behaviour (trashing shops, etc.). The vast majority of protesters were peaceful, treated well, and not kettled or horse-charged - a direct response to the previous condemnation of those sorts of tactics used against the students in the previous marches.
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