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In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

cnn.com

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Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#81

Post by estel »

bradgessler wrote: post #77
jwr wrote: post #63

"free flow of information can sometimes be a problem" — I never thought I'd hear these words from a British PM.

Yeah, wow, I'm dumbfounded. If the British government follows through with this, the rioters will actually have a new reason to riot: freedom of speech.

I don't see how it's controversial to say that the "free flow of information can sometimes be a problem"?

Obviously this freedom can cause problems for some at times; but this is a price we pay for a free and open society.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#82

Post by lwhi »

MrScruff wrote: post #74
zeteo wrote: post #2

> when people are using social media for violence, we need to stop them. Is this the same Cameron who criticized Libya when they shut off the Internet against what, in their view, were violent protesters?

Not that I agree with Cameron, but here are some differences. - Protesting is legal in the UK and happens regularly without undue interference by the police. - The riots in the UK mainly consisted of crimes committed against citizens so they were clearly a policing issue. - They're not proposing shutting of the internet, just the principal vectors used to organise riots. - The rioters were not subject to a violent re…

Use of rubber bullets was authorised after the police finally got their act together. I don't think it was a worthy desire to avoid escalation that prevented their use earlier on .. more lack of organisation.

The main question is, how will our government discover whether a citizen is communicating about a forbidden subject? I suppose all communication will need to be explicitly monitored. This is another step closer towards distopia.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#83

Post by [deleted] »

sliverstorm wrote: post #58
doctoboggan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the fear is that given that power, the government will be able to make subjective calls on situations they deem important enough to intervene. There is definitely a line between justified Libyan protests and the violent riots here, but where does that line fall? Do you trust the government to make that call today and (once it's law) forever into the future? It's a tough question, I know I don't know the answer.

Fear indeed! I am quite surprised at the vehemence with which my speculation is being quashed.

[deleted]

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#85

Post by ordinary »

[deleted] wrote: post #70
nodata wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the root underlying cause for the riot? It wasn't plenty of jobs and a bright future. Edit: mibbit has deleted his comments.

[deleted]

Once "criminals" have a bright future and a job, they probably won't be criminals any more. I think that's a good thing for everyone involved.

I say "criminals" not to imply that what these people do isn't criminal (it is), but because dividing the world into criminals and good law abiding citizens is a false dichotomy. Normal people sometimes do criminal things and criminals sometimes to things that are good.

Additionally, by applying only the label "criminal" to certain people, you're ignoring that these are human beings with lives and dreams and ideas and problems and families, who have reasons for the things they do. They may be good reasons, they might not be, but to disregard them altogether is a mistake.

At the same time, you're implying that crime is a problem that either cannot be solved or can be solved by jailtime and harsh sentencing. Neither of these implications are true.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#86

Post by ThomPete »

[deleted] wrote: post #78
nodata wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said that criminals should be offered a bright future and a job. Your reply sidesteps my question. You talk about a crappy underclass, thugs and criminal gangs: Why is there a crappy underclass? Why are there thugs and criminal gangs? Why is there a group of people that thinks it's okay to loot? What is the reason that this group exists, what is the _underlying_cause_ for this?

[deleted]

I think your description of them says a lot about your arguments nature.

I mean of course the parent are to blame, but since they too belong to what you describe as underclass they simply do not have the mental surplus.

If you have kids you will know how hard it can be to control their whereabouts.

And as far as I can se, no one is claiming it's an excuse. It's an explanation. You can then as you do choose to disregard it or you could perhaps try and look at the root cause and accept that social status and income do have an effect.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#88

Post by dmor »

Maybe they should focus on enforcing the laws they have, not forming special committees to write more. I have to believe it is against the terms of service of all these apps to conspire to commit crimes or participate in criminal activity using Twitter, Facebook, BBM, etc. Would they propose shutting down telephones, text messaging, and all other forms of communication (snail mail, singing clown telegrams, monkey butlers) which have been used for good and evil since their existence?

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#89

Post by jwr »

estel wrote: post #81
bradgessler wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, wow, I'm dumbfounded. If the British government follows through with this, the rioters will actually have a new reason to riot: freedom of speech.

I don't see how it's controversial to say that the "free flow of information can sometimes be a problem"? Obviously this freedom can cause problems for some at times; but this is a price we pay for a free and open society.

Taken out of context (as you did) it isn't controversial.

But in the context of the article linked to it implies that it is a problem that the government needs to do something about by restricting the said free flow of information.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#90

Post by daveoh »

OK lets look at the facts here. Blackberry phones have become widely used by the urban poor because they are free on cheap tarrifs. BBM is essentially free text messaging and so also widely used by the urban poor. Its should come as no surprise that the riots were co-ordinated by BBM. Its just text messaging, quick and easy. I find it hard to believe that the rioters running round London was browsing facebook and twitter.

The comparison should not be made with social networking sites (which the term social media is synonymous with), just because BBM uses the internet, rather the comparison should be made with text messaging. I like how the term 'social media' has been used here. What is social media? Anything that is used for communication? So are we talking about controlling text messaging, phone calls, email? Because to organise this amount of organised theft and vandalism these avenues of communication are more likely to be the methods of choice.

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