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Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

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Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#41

Post by anonporridge »

piggybox wrote: post #32
seibelj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pandora Papers recently released had terabytes of data and 13 million documents of how the richest people and politicians on earth avoid taxes. Bitcoin was used exactly zero times.

By definition, bitcoin transactions are not traceable, right?

Literally no. Base layer bitcoin transactions (all the large value ones) happen on the public blockchain.

It's pseudonymous, but if you can attach an identity to one transaction, you have a good chance of tracing everything else they've done.

And even if you don't know who everyone is today, you might be able to deanonymize it at some point in the future, because all the data is public.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#42

Post by Freestyler_3 »

NoGravitas wrote: post #4
xrd wrote: post #2

I still think war and oil are dirtier and don't see a way to wean ourselves off that consumption and impact. I do see that cryptocurrencies are moving toward energy reduction through things like proof of stake and L2s. https://susanfsu.medium.com/think-btc-is-a-dirty-business-co...

HERE IS THE ARTICLE YOU CAN SEND TO PEOPLE WHEN THEY SAY “BUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES WITH CRYPTOART WILL BE SOLVED SOON, RIGHT?” https://everestpipkin.medium.com/but-the-environmental-issue... The promise of "proof of stake eventually" is just greenwashing.

All crypto bad because PW bad.

And I do not see how PS is greenwashing, since it is fundamentally changing the business. This is like going from burning brown coal to solar power, and then you would say solar power is just greenwashing.

I do not mind criticism, so give some.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#43

Post by eterm »

MadSudaca wrote: post #35
endisneigh wrote: post #3

There's some good data here - that being said, even if the carbon footprint were literally zero, I couldn't personally support cryptocurrency. Fundamentally it's the antithesis to democracy. Say whatever you will about all forms of government, but ultimately no matter the form, there's some level of accountability. Some governments use elections to facilitate this, others use the threat of rulers being killed. One wa…

What about the benefit to the rest of society? Everyone else will, in theory, have some of the same powers that the oligarchs have.

Trickle down cryptonomics?

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#44

Post by endisneigh »

MadSudaca wrote: post #35
endisneigh wrote: post #3

There's some good data here - that being said, even if the carbon footprint were literally zero, I couldn't personally support cryptocurrency. Fundamentally it's the antithesis to democracy. Say whatever you will about all forms of government, but ultimately no matter the form, there's some level of accountability. Some governments use elections to facilitate this, others use the threat of rulers being killed. One wa…

What about the benefit to the rest of society? Everyone else will, in theory, have some of the same powers that the oligarchs have.

You can do that with a democracy. What benefits do crypto bring?

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#45

Post by foepys »

MadSudaca wrote: post #35
endisneigh wrote: post #3

There's some good data here - that being said, even if the carbon footprint were literally zero, I couldn't personally support cryptocurrency. Fundamentally it's the antithesis to democracy. Say whatever you will about all forms of government, but ultimately no matter the form, there's some level of accountability. Some governments use elections to facilitate this, others use the threat of rulers being killed. One wa…

What about the benefit to the rest of society? Everyone else will, in theory, have some of the same powers that the oligarchs have.

If you own any money, you also have "some of the same powers" that the oligarchs have. Maybe you can bribe a bouncer to let you into he club, maybe buy nice shoes and impress at a job interview.

It's just so little compared to the oligarchs that it doesn't matter.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#47

Post by joshmarlow »

piggybox wrote: post #32
seibelj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pandora Papers recently released had terabytes of data and 13 million documents of how the richest people and politicians on earth avoid taxes. Bitcoin was used exactly zero times.

By definition, bitcoin transactions are not traceable, right?

I kind of wonder if HN will block me for posting the same comment, but it's so frequently relevant.

> By definition, bitcoin transactions are not traceable, right?

Michael Morell, a former acting director of the CIA, has some things to say about the use of BTC in crime:

> Based on our research and discussions with industry experts, I have confidence in two conclusions: • The broad generalizations about the use of Bitcoin in illicit finance are significantly overstated. • The blockchain ledger on which Bitcoin transactions are recorded is an underutilized forensic tool that can be used more widely by law enforcement and the intelligence community to identify and disrupt illicit activities. Put simply, blockchain analysis is a highly effective crime fighting and intelligence gathering tool.

Source: https://casebitcoin.com/story/former-cia-director-finds-bitc...

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#48

Post by NoGravitas »

Freestyler_3 wrote: post #42
NoGravitas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HERE IS THE ARTICLE YOU CAN SEND TO PEOPLE WHEN THEY SAY “BUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES WITH CRYPTOART WILL BE SOLVED SOON, RIGHT?” https://everestpipkin.medium.com/but-the-environmental-issue... The promise of "proof of stake eventually" is just greenwashing.

All crypto bad because PW bad. And I do not see how PS is greenwashing, since it is fundamentally changing the business. This is like going from burning brown coal to solar power, and then you would say solar power is just greenwashing. I do not mind criticism, so give some.

How long has Etherium been "planning" to move to PoS? How widely used are other PoS systems?

Even beyond that, a PoS system is still, like all cryptocurrencies, functionally, a pyramid scheme.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#50

Post by rewtraw »

piggybox wrote: post #32
seibelj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pandora Papers recently released had terabytes of data and 13 million documents of how the richest people and politicians on earth avoid taxes. Bitcoin was used exactly zero times.

By definition, bitcoin transactions are not traceable, right?

The opposite. It's a public ledger and all transactions can be viewed.
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