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Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

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Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#141

Post by ozzythecat »

I don’t personally use FB and don’t have a very favorable view of their products.

I would, however, like to see the same level scrutiny applied to the general American media, especially the news media. FB has come in and started eating their lunch. There’s a deeper problem here, and it feels more like the powers that he want to take down FB.

I’m not denying any allegation made against FB, but why is it that Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, and Hollywood get a pass when they’ve been damaging America for much longer than FB has existed?

If the government sees a problem and wants to get involved - great. But let’s hold an equal bar.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#142

Post by ncr100 »

As a technologist, to me this is technology being disruptive without sufficient control. In this case disruptive to human communication. And FB doesn't also have a comprehensive suite of human ethics sufficiently in their loop.

Why did FB do this: She identified a disconnect between the FB Civic Engagement team recommendations and FB acting on those recommendations, in one of the 60 Minutes videos.

She says people at FB aren't trying to be evil, however:

> "... also detailed how she says Facebook quickly disbanded its civic integrity team — responsible for protecting the democratic process and tackling misinformation — after the 2020 U.S. election."

What ethics does FB corporation stand for, factually? [Spare the cynical "profit" ethic - other than that.] Is it "connecting people for .. " some reason?

Today's hearings indicate an evolution to COPPA, at the least, may be a legal outcome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYB9_PR3sQ

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#143

Post by prvc »

newfonewhodis wrote: post #44
prvc wrote: post #29

What concrete information has been revealed that implicates Facebook in illegal behavior? How does the "whistleblower"'s stated desires wrt goverment-mandated moderation standards differ from those articulated by representatives of the company itself? Such a framework would shift liability away from the company, possibly reduce their moderation load, and create a significant barrier for entry for potential competitor…

> What concrete information has been revealed that implicates Facebook in illegal behavior? I'll leave it up to the legal system to decide what FB has done that's currently illegal. However, you don't just blow the whistle when you think laws are being broken. Sometimes you do it to start a discussion that can change the laws. It's clear from the Facebook Files stories and documents that FB has known about the effect…

Will the "lying to shareholders" argument hold up under scrutiny, though? The putative knowledge they supposedly withheld is extremely vague, and what's more, pertains to very sensationalistic topics. The delta between appearance and reality for these revelations' severity couldn't be greater.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#144

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

hunterb123 wrote: post #93
woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

To clarify, can you specify exactly what law you would like made? What do you want to be done exactly ? I would rather take the stance of feed algorithms and moderation logs be PUBLICLY available. Transparency instead of censorship.

If you get too big, you can't buy your competition (e.g. FB buying IG). Or if you get too big, you have to open your stuff up like email does. Or if you lie to congress, you get penalized. Or if you get too big, you have to make your algorithms publicly available.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#145

Post by asdff »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #102
the_snooze wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is straight-up deflection. It makes sense to start somewhere, so why not the biggest player in town? That would be Facebook, with billions of active users. None of those cable channels are even close to 100s of millions of viewers.

I mean, I think this should be an 'and' thing, not an 'or' thing. Don't deflect from FB. But when FB's dirty laundry is aired, air these other groups' too.

Easier to set a precedent against one org and use that to enforce good behavior towards other orgs in the future. It's how we've always gone after corrupted industries in this country. If you go after every bad egg at once you aren't going to win.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#146

Post by handmodel »

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #124
beaner wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it , exactly?

Personalized advertising.

What would be the definition of this?

I listen to a podcast on football. Are they allowed to run ads that are about sports betting and NFL tickets? That is personalized to the group. Is Facebook allowed to run ads for sports betting to all people who are fans of a professional team on their site?

Is Facebook not allowed to run me ads for local restaurants any more?

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#147

Post by nradov »

The title here doesn't match the article headline. The documents make Facebook look bad but so far I haven't seen anything incriminating, in the sense of violating a US Federal criminal statute. Are there credible allegations of something like securities fraud or wire fraud here?

Note that there is no generally no law against disseminating incorrect or "harmful" information.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#148

Post by entropicdrifter »

gameswithgo wrote: post #98
aierou wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just compared a social media company to a weapons manufacturer. Elsewhere, I see comparisons to cigarettes, oxycontin, gambling. It is easy to see how one might think Facebook to be evil if they are constantly bombarded with these false equivalencies.

Nothing false about those equivalencies. In the case of cigarettes and Facebook you have the exact same practice of optimizing for addiction with no regard for the harm it does.

Not to mention targeting children specifically to foster deeper, longer-term addiction

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#149

Post by jasondigitized »

afavour wrote: post #109
jasondigitized wrote: post #38

Now do the same for CNN, Fox News and every other sophisticated media company who have all created Skinner boxes to get more eyeballs. The entire system needs a hard examination.

Oh come on, they’re not comparable. If you turn on CNN or Fox News right now I know exactly what you’ll see. Because it’s exactly what I’d see if did the same. What’s on your Facebook feed right now? No clue. How are different types of content weighted? No way of knowing. Facebook holds a lot more secrets than any traditional media company about what they’re showing their users. Leaks from FB are much more valuable.

What will you see? 24-7, Emotionally charged "Breaking News" which is simply a different fruit from the same horrible tree. CNN and Fox News are just using different methods based on the data they have available which comes from focus groups, Nielsen, and a whole cottage industry that most people are unaware of.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#150

Post by mrweasel »

woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

Facebook may not be doing anything illegal, but it is immoral. While morality is subjective, and not enforceable, the public needs to know what is happening, so they can make their mind about supporting a given company.
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