Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#91

Post by robbrown451 » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

travoc wrote: post #42

prvc wrote: post #29

What concrete information has been revealed that implicates Facebook in illegal behavior? How does the "whistleblower"'s stated desires wrt goverment-mandated moderation standards differ from those articulated by representatives of the company itself? Such a framework would shift liability away from the company, possibly reduce their moderation load, and create a significant barrier for entry for potential competitor…

The whistleblower is taking a huge legal risk here. I wonder if the Wall Street Journal has really explained the consequences to the leaker.

She is taking a risk, and I salute her for it. But at the end of the day, it is likely her career will have a huge boost from this. And Facebook would probably be very foolish to go after her.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#92

Post by gruez » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #51

prvc wrote: post #29

What concrete information has been revealed that implicates Facebook in illegal behavior? How does the "whistleblower"'s stated desires wrt goverment-mandated moderation standards differ from those articulated by representatives of the company itself? Such a framework would shift liability away from the company, possibly reduce their moderation load, and create a significant barrier for entry for potential competitor…

If you can't moderate your platform, you shouldn't have a platform. This "Boo hoo we can't moderate ... " wipes tears with billions of dollars ... is deadly comedy, yet lots of people fall for it.

> If you can't moderate your platform, you shouldn't have a platform.

what counts as "moderate"? only removing illegal material? removing fake news as well? maybe remove questionable news as well, as long as it's towards the "greater good"?

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#93

Post by hunterb123 » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

To clarify, can you specify exactly what law you would like made? What do you want to be done exactly?

I would rather take the stance of feed algorithms and moderation logs be PUBLICLY available. Transparency instead of censorship.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#94

Post by throwawayay02 » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #51

prvc wrote: post #29

What concrete information has been revealed that implicates Facebook in illegal behavior? How does the "whistleblower"'s stated desires wrt goverment-mandated moderation standards differ from those articulated by representatives of the company itself? Such a framework would shift liability away from the company, possibly reduce their moderation load, and create a significant barrier for entry for potential competitor…

If you can't moderate your platform, you shouldn't have a platform. This "Boo hoo we can't moderate ... " wipes tears with billions of dollars ... is deadly comedy, yet lots of people fall for it.

Or maybe have no moderation at all? I was under the impression you only see posts from people you follow, so if you're an adult, why require any moderation at all except for not showing what your country deems illegal?

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#95

Post by throwaway6734 » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

q1w2 wrote: post #58

jasondigitized wrote: post #38

Now do the same for CNN, Fox News and every other sophisticated media company who have all created Skinner boxes to get more eyeballs. The entire system needs a hard examination.

I suspect the reaction from a lot of companies is going to be to lock down internal documents under a need-to-know security model.

And greatly reduce their efficiency

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#96

Post by amoshi » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

q1w2 wrote: post #58

jasondigitized wrote: post #38

Now do the same for CNN, Fox News and every other sophisticated media company who have all created Skinner boxes to get more eyeballs. The entire system needs a hard examination.

I suspect the reaction from a lot of companies is going to be to lock down internal documents under a need-to-know security model.

That's pretty much what happened after Snowden, everything is much more locked down, access is tightly controlled and employees are more closely monitored.

That's why I'm glad he released as much as he did, any followup whistle-blower leak is bound to be much much harder.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#97

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

jyxent wrote: post #70

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her bigger risk is probably the employment angle. Hard to picture hiring this person except if you're 100% certain your company's behavior aligns with her morals, and you can't find anyone else. Even for people who generally agree with her view on Facebook employing her presents a pretty serious known risk at this point.

I'm guessing she would be eligible for an SEC whistleblower award if her complaints result in fines to Facebook.

Has she alleged any illegal behaviors? Nothing I read seemed to be against the law, but I guess the law is a big and complicated beast.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#98

Post by gameswithgo » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

aierou wrote: post #76

walrus01 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone I know who works in FAANG, FB specifically, and PMs even more specifically, really have little idea of whats going on in the bigger picture That's exactly the thing about the banality of evil, any individual person working on some small subsystem or component of something in a FAANG, to them it might not immediately be apparent that what they're doing is enabling the corrosion of democracy and discourse. A…

You just compared a social media company to a weapons manufacturer. Elsewhere, I see comparisons to cigarettes, oxycontin, gambling. It is easy to see how one might think Facebook to be evil if they are constantly bombarded with these false equivalencies.

Nothing false about those equivalencies. In the case of cigarettes and Facebook you have the exact same practice of optimizing for addiction with no regard for the harm it does.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#99

Post by echelon » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

> while not illegal

While not currently illegal.

Call your representatives and tell them you find this reprehensible.

Let's make it illegal. We live in a representative democracy.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#100

Post by iabacu » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

flandish wrote: post #48

prvc wrote: post #29

What concrete information has been revealed that implicates Facebook in illegal behavior? How does the "whistleblower"'s stated desires wrt goverment-mandated moderation standards differ from those articulated by representatives of the company itself? Such a framework would shift liability away from the company, possibly reduce their moderation load, and create a significant barrier for entry for potential competitor…

What I don't understand is how this is different than Nike making shoes with child labor overseas in the "global south", etc. That harms children, for profit. Facebook is a for profit organization. This is the rule with organizations like this. If given enough time, size, and lack of shielding, any corporation will eventually cause harm in some way. We seem to have less focus on "Nike whistleblowers" or similar, you…

This is not about children, though, it's about investors.

If Nike makes a material claim to investors (e.g. that children labor is not used), but the claim is revealed to be knowingly false, then that's securities fraud.