171–180 of 381 posts
For all people complain today about the toxic cultures of old, maybe they say least had the advantage of people saying what they thought in plain terms, instead of dressing over them with sarcasm and hiding them in vagueness.
In a more relevant vein, I wonder how often too senior means too opinionated.
I've seen a few people fall off the career ladder to their doom in different fields. I once was a member of a local hackerspace and the place was like the Island of Misfit Toys. So many interesting and talented people biding there time there in between jobs and struggling to get back on the ladder. Lots of horror stories -- a homeless mechanical engineer, a couch surfing old programmer, etc. I think most of us are qu…
I don't know. At some point, it's also a question of perception and attitude. Falling off the career ladder is in itself a strange idea. As I get older, it seems to me that the concept has little actual reality. Few people have linear career nowadays. At some point, things tend to take a turn for the unexpected. It can be failing to reach the position you were aiming for or suddenly finding yourself unemployed. It ca…
The worst thing about this case is that his wife had multiple sclerosis, and so his health insurance was of the utmost importance to him. This caused him incredible stress as he continued to look for work to no avail.
The problem with the modern workplace is specialization. Some people are extraordinarily specialized. The man I spoke of was highly talented, but also highly specialized. It's hard for someone to adapt at 54 to another specialization. I actually helped him pick up python, and he learned quickly, but it was clear that the man was not in his spry years. Any college kid could beat him in productivity in some code monkey role -- which is what he eventually started trying to hunt for.
I could also tell you about a guy that had a masters degree in chemical engineering working at Best Buy alongside me when I was in college. I've met so many people in my life that have not been privy to the dynamically lateral career system you seem to be aware of.
I know from direct experience that some people do indeed fall off the ladder. To me it isn't a concept: it's the reality I've observed.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You post this all the time. You did 27 years at one single company, as you point out so proudly and often. After a stint like that, anyone would be unhireable. It isn't your age, as so many others on this chain have pointed out. You didn't build your CV to be attractive to new employers at all , and when eventually that became relevant again, you were out of luck. I read your posts whenever I see them, it's obvious y…
> You did 27 years at one single company, as you point out so proudly and often. After a stint like that, anyone would be unhireable. Next time you hear someone complain about why programmers jump jobs ever 2 years, point them to this cynical and stereotyping comment. In my opinion this is no different from saying "What, you didn't graduate from college? Well, obviously you are unhireable", but I bet 'Icathian would…
You can blame me for recognizing that all you want, but it's a pretty well-known truth of our industry. I want it to always be easy to find lucrative, interesting work, and I'm willing to play the game to keep it that way for myself. I'm not sure what about that you object to so strongly.
Don't even get me started (just take a shufti through my posting history on this very site. You'll see this is a subject that has my attention) . > while the experience that comes with age is valued in fields like music, it counts against you in tech. Yup. The Jurassic-scale disasters that are becoming increasingly common, these days, are evidence of unsteady hands at the wheel. I'm not saying that older folks are be…
You post this all the time. You did 27 years at one single company, as you point out so proudly and often. After a stint like that, anyone would be unhireable. It isn't your age, as so many others on this chain have pointed out. You didn't build your CV to be attractive to new employers at all , and when eventually that became relevant again, you were out of luck. I read your posts whenever I see them, it's obvious y…
40 is not the new 60. Not even close. At 40, I've done some of the best work I've ever done and my pay has been better than ever. I'm 52 now and the trend has only gotten better. Why? Its because at 40, I had a much deeper understanding of the tech, I understood of the whole business process and I had the maturity to deal with people in a productive way. You won't find all of those in a 25 year old developer. The onl…
Ideally more senior emloyees worked in multitude of situations and team structure and project is better for productivity, they also have more even performance in long term, but hiring practice seems to be unideal.
Perhaps they have a shorter attention span in mind, promoting replaceablity over long term stability and predictability?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My clothes are either no name, or old old companies like Carhartt, levis, Wangler, Dickies, etc... You are wearing designer clothes! Just by a designer from 1873 [1]. The equivalent programmer would be John von Neumann, maybe. -------------------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi_Strauss
Exactly my point. the Comment I responded to was "No one wants old designers they want the Hot New young designers"
-- What is your goal?
If you don't know where you're going, the chances are your career trajectory could be plateauing, or even going backwards.
-- Are you progressing?
Pick a metric aligned with your goal and then measure yourself against it (e.g what you can measure, you can manage). Whether its specializing technically or moving vertically into management, its really important to keep moving in that direction, and to ensure that you are "compounding" your skills and successes along the way.
-- Are your skills transferable?
At all costs, ensure your skills are transferable. This will give you endless options and freedom to take breaks and move companies at will. NEVER allow yourself be the highly paid person on an obsolete project/system, not even for a year.
I'm 30s and feel old. The biggest thing is that I don't have the motivation to be fast and work extra hours. I look at the new college grads and remember those days when I didn't have a family and could put in extra hours, believing I had a career.
On the other hand, few (younger) people have got the sensibility/ability to befriend an older person in the workplace and learn from their experience. I have, and it's been valuable in getting the perspective.
If you're lucky, you too will get old in life, and be subject to the ills that you now see around you perpetrated on older people.
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I searched for a developer job just before I turned 30, stayed with it for 10 years, and then searched for another when I turned 40.
My experience of ageism is that most companies hiring just don't have the budget to hire an experienced software developer. They'd rather hire a few more cheap (and inexperienced) developers than hire a few highly experienced, and expensive, software developers.
To me, this translated in a longer job search. Not unreasonably longer, as it took me about a month to find a job when I was almost 30, and three months right before I turned 40. (Worth noting, when I was 30 I lived in Silicon Valley, and it's much easier to find a developer job there compared to where I live now.)
But, I do want to point out something that most articles of ageism don't point out: Expectations of a 40+ year old developer are quite different compared to a 20-30 year old developer. The kind of handholding that a junior developer has, and mentorship that a junior developer has, is gone. It's also much harder to change stacks than when I was a junior developer, because no one wants to pay me big bucks to learn like a novice. Thus, it's hard to change stacks. (Not impossible, but I really like the job I have now.)
Another thing to point out: There are a lot of mediocre developers who get very comfortable with handholding in the early part of their career. I suspect these are the developers who really struggle in their 40s, because they can't meet the expectations of a senior developer.