New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing • Hacker News Board

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#261

Post by BeFlatXIII » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

fleddr wrote: post #150

drstewart wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's confusing about "USB C to Lightning Cable MFI Certified iPhone Cable Fast iPhone Charger Cable 20W PD 3/6/10FT Type C Charging & Syncing Data Compatible iPhone 12 Pro Max Mini 11 X XR XS 8 P iPad iPod （White)"?

..which only took hours to find on Amazon, and you're sure you finally have the correct one. Then the first review goes "this cable is shit, it doesn't charge".

That first review is identical to the first review on every single other USB-C cable, regardless of brand. It's like the top review of ever single power strip being "I overloaded it and my house burned down".

No wonder people take the risk by buying the cheapest option and hoping they win the QC lottery.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#262

Post by 542354234235 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #251

thermin wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of doom and gloom here; let's see if it really got that bad. >You need a PD charger and not a QC charger... Impossible, all USB-C QC chargers are also USB PD chargers. >into the correct usb port to charge the laptop The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet). >buy an original charger for your laptop Good! Now you have a USB PD charger that covers your…

> Impossible, all USB-C QC chargers are also USB PD chargers. You have a lot of USB-A QC chargers, and you just take a usb A -> C cable. [0] > The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet). https://p3-ofp.static.pub/fes/cms/2021/07/01/5q6w49cnwh2ka55... So... do I tell my grandma to plug it into the "weird robot"-symbol port (5), or the "danger, high voltage" one (6)?…

> This is not really true... Some laptops maybe... Lenovo had a square one

The exact shape of the port is clearly not the point of their statement. It is that you had specific, one use, variations of chargers that only worked for one laptop and were trashed when you got something new and were very difficult to get a replacement or additional charger for. Whether they were barrel or square isn’t the point.

> If they buy a custom charger for their laptop, they won't use it to charge their phone, because they know their phone charger won't charge their laptop, even though everything fits.

But most people handled it fine if they had a tablet, phone, and a few other random devices with micro USB. For the average person, moving to the semi standard micro USB was a net win, even though some people would try trickle charging their phones with old, low power usb chargers. Just because grandma can’t figure out what she is doing, doesn’t mean the actual average user won’t quickly figure out that their USB-C charger will work for anything less what the charger was rated for. Your laptop charger will charge your tablet, phone, and extras like headphones. Your tablet charger will charge your phone and headphones, etc. that is a good enough solution for most people, and simple enough most people will be fine. Knowing you can travel with 4-5 USB-C devices and only bring your laptop charger to charge everything is much better.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#263

Post by kps » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

cromka wrote: post #235

kps wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same is true of Apple's Lightning. It looks symmetrical, but electrically it isn't.

> Same is true of Apple's Lightning. It looks symmetrical, but electrically it isn't. Have you every used an Apple product? Because if you did you'd know that it doesn't matter which direction you plug it in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector) "The male Lightning connector is symmetrical (same pins on either side), so it can be inserted into a female Lightning port in either orientation."

It's not, though.

https://www.techinsights.com/blog/systems-analysis-apple-lig...

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#264

Post by thermin » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #251

thermin wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of doom and gloom here; let's see if it really got that bad. >You need a PD charger and not a QC charger... Impossible, all USB-C QC chargers are also USB PD chargers. >into the correct usb port to charge the laptop The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet). >buy an original charger for your laptop Good! Now you have a USB PD charger that covers your…

> Impossible, all USB-C QC chargers are also USB PD chargers. You have a lot of USB-A QC chargers, and you just take a usb A -> C cable. [0] > The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet). https://p3-ofp.static.pub/fes/cms/2021/07/01/5q6w49cnwh2ka55... So... do I tell my grandma to plug it into the "weird robot"-symbol port (5), or the "danger, high voltage" one (6)?…

>You have a lot of USB-A QC chargers, and you just take a usb A -> C cable

Why would you assume it would work? Just because the connectors fit together? Both my computer monitor and my TV have two HDMI input ports. Should I fault the HDMI protocol (and any connector standard where server and client sides are physically identical) that I can't daisy-chain them?

My grandma has a microUSB Android tablet and a microUSB feature phone. I set up for her a dual USB-A charger and two identical microUSB cables that are always plugged in, so she can use either one or both. I don't quite see the problem with the USB-C setup either: get several high-powered chargers for her so that she can use whichever one.

But I get it. The times really did have changed; one piece of information - the wattage of the charger - that was hidden from the consumer is now reified: all chargers fit, but only some of them are powerful enough. Fortunately, it's mostly a question of comparing integer numbers: my phone's 25W, and the charger is 30W - it fits! My laptop is 45W though, bummer. I should get a >=45W charger for it.

But for that nuisance we traded away the obnoxious burden of distinguishing between Pump Express and QuickCharge and Adaptive Fast Charge and Adaptive Super Fast Charge, between Lenovo thick or thin barrel plugs or yellow rectangle plug, between multiple generations of Apple laptop plugs, of insane proprietary connectors like Nikon's UC-E6, of having to power hubs externally (thank god for 15W minimum), of the anticonsumer pricing of the vendors' proprietary tech, and (fingers crossed) of the ridiculous mix and match approach Apple has to its iPhone and iPad lines.

It seems to be a good deal.

By the way, I fondly remember a Sony Ericsson K510i I had in high school :) That toothy connector was finicky as hell (something I'm reminded of by lower quality USB-C hubs).

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#265

Post by vetinari » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #208

vetinari wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Mac has the more expensive Thunderbolt; Thunderbolt capablities go beyond USB-C. For computers with USB-C only the situation is more complicated.

Thunderbolt == USB 4 they are now different brand names for the same thing.

While Thunderbolt 3 could be the same as USB 4[*], USB 4 is not the same thing as USB-C.

And then there's also Thunderbolt 4.

* - it is really not. While USB4 is based on TB3, it made some TB3 parts optional. For example, USB4 is required to support 20 Gbps at minimum, while TB3 does 40 Gbps for all implementations.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#266

Post by DaiPlusPlus » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

ampersandy wrote: post #155

makeitdouble wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can send back a cable that doesn't match a well established spec, you'll have lost about an hour of your life. It's harder to return a cable that had some numbers but not really matching what you're trying to do with them, and arguing back and forth about wether your iPhone 14 was supposed to transfer data at full speed with their "high speed" "iPhone serial A23XXXX~A324XXXX supported" cable. And you'll already h…

Assuming 2 day shipping, you probably lose ~2 real hours of time, but have no working cable for at least 4 days. - a few minutes to order the cable - 2 days for the cable to arrive - ~2 hours to realize it does not work, complain, initiative a refund, print a return label, and drop it off at a post office - another 2 days to wait for the next cable.

If you're in a large city you can often get same-day delivery to an Amazon locker that should be a short drive away though

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#267

Post by cromka » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:37 PM UTC

kps wrote: post #263

cromka wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same is true of Apple's Lightning. It looks symmetrical, but electrically it isn't. Have you every used an Apple product? Because if you did you'd know that it doesn't matter which direction you plug it in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector) "The male Lightning connector is symmetrical (same pins on either side), so it can be inserted into a female Lightning port in either orientation."

It's not, though. https://www.techinsights.com/blog/systems-analysis-apple-lig...

The context, however, is important: the OP responded "same as in Lightning" to this:

"I have some USB C chargers that only charge in 1 orientation"

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#268

Post by lmm » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #85

hbosch wrote: post #39

Please, for the love of god, make it obvious if a USB C cable can be used as a display cable or not. One thing that absolutely blows about USB C is that they all look the same, but to connect my LG UltraFine to my GTX 2070 I had to do literally hours of research before I could find a reliable cable on Amazon that was a “bidirectional USB C DisplayPort” cable because I naively assumed that USB C was a general purpose…

> Having one plug be capable (or incapable) of doing so many things melted my brain. Good thing you missed the time when cables with DB9/DB25 connectors were everywhere, for every purpose.

I mean yes, that sucked. Why are we going back to that?

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#269

Post by userbinator » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

nikau wrote: post #53

userbinator wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish laptops would've standardised on the 20V barrel jack (maybe with slightly different sizes to denote current capability), like they almost did before USB-C came along.

What's the advantage of that over usb-pd chargers that also deliver 20V?

A much simpler and more robust interface.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#270

Post by hakfoo » Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

gumby wrote: post #50

hakfoo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't charging also complicated by some fast-charge protocols? I know the phone accessory companies are always saying things like "Supports Qualcomm Quick Charge 23.45 with Sprinkles" in addition to "18 watts". I think the cables might more or less be the same, but it's still a complex ecosystem question. I have two devices with USB-C chargers. I can make a reasonable guess that the bullion-cube sized charger provide…

> On my laptop, I can apparently use a USB-C to DisplayPort cable to get 4k/60 output (while the HDMI is limited to 4k/30). But now I've got no way to charge it. I don’t know what laptop you have. DisplayPort is native to USB C cabling and the Type C connector is the modern DisplayPort connector. I have my Mac plugged into a Thunderbolt display that uses DisplayPort to display the image and also powers the computer.…

I have a Lenovo E585. The monitors I have don't have Type-C, they have the "Rectangle with one corner cut off" connector, so you use that type of cable. I don't believe that setup is designed for charging at all.

If they haven't done it yet, I expect to someone see a monitor with a built-in hub AND Type-C connectivity. They will be returned by the hundreds as people plug their keyboards and flash drives into the video socket and wonder why nothing comes up.