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Hermit Programmers Are Dead

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101–110 of 133 posts

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#101
In the old days, there were no separate "engineer" and "factory worker" jobs, just "craftsman". Or "architect" and "construction worker", just "builder".

Perhaps a similar separation will occur in programming, and perhaps (this is a separate assumption) the lower-skill jobs that involve mostly "plumbing" will be automated, just like "assembly worker" jobs are getting automated.

I doubt very much that the more complex and "creative" tasks could be replaced, not in foreseeable future.

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#102
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The writer is an academic, a PhD student, so they likely have little industry experience. Presumably extremely smart and capable in their domain, but not well informed about the industry beyond what they have read in history books about old-timey programmers.

Also pretty clearly not a native english speaker/writer (I'm hoping based on how substandard their english skills are). It may not be entirely fair, but the poor writing pre-disposes me to not give much merit to their arguments.

Is your username a PUN that I am missing, what's the relation to Gilgamesh?

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#103
post #80

This seems about ten years out of date. Current cloud deployment software is now so powerful that a lone developer can write and deploy entire systems: front end, middle tier micro services, data stores, private network, firewalls, all of it, boom. And it’ll be containers every where so dev and prod will be more in sync than ever. And communication skills where highly useful in the mid 90s as much as they will always…

> Current cloud deployment software is now so powerful that a lone developer can write and deploy entire systems: When was this ever different? Single developers always could barf out whole systems. And going by my experience, the relative quality of fullstack-devs today is not better than it was in the past, they just have now more gears moving. > And the salaries for developers are so much higher now than before. A…

When was it different? I mean, there was a time when the technology didn’t even exist, if we are being pedantic. But before cloud services, you could not “barf out” a “whole system.” Colo places weren’t as open as they are now; if you knew the right people and had access to cash to buy a server up front, sure you could barf out what you could afford.

Before that, you’d have to have a number of landlines to provide a service from home that people had to dial into.

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#104

This is such a strange thing to choose to write a derogatory article about. If you are a singular developer that is only writing code to satisfy your needs, then you can do whatever the hell you want. If you have to work in a collaborative environment, then you will likely need to play by the rules of that environment. There's not much else to say about it. The stuff about automation doesn't even seem to fit in this…

I'm guessing the article refers to a form of "cowboy coding" or similar things promoted along with the myth of the 10x programmer, where there are attempts to apply that practice (of siloing developers and having them only write code to satisfy their needs) into the organizational environment. And I'd agree with the article there, in my experience that's awful and leads to everyone being upset. The hermit programmer is no different from a rogue programmer. It's a great way to ensure that key pieces of information are missed or glossed over.

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#105

This is such a strange thing to choose to write a derogatory article about. If you are a singular developer that is only writing code to satisfy your needs, then you can do whatever the hell you want. If you have to work in a collaborative environment, then you will likely need to play by the rules of that environment. There's not much else to say about it. The stuff about automation doesn't even seem to fit in this…

From that light, I think the article's point is that rules of the environment have changed so much that the archetype of the lone-programmer is becoming obsolete in the workforce.

I've always worked at agencies so I get exposure to a great deal of projects, and I do partly see what they are saying. More and more parts of orgs are becoming intertwined with software, and they're becoming better at software, requiring you as a developer to organize and connect all the loose bits and pieces everyone else has made to achieve tasks. That takes communication and collaboration even if you're the only developer.

Half my days are spent getting access to SaaS accounts, figuring out who's in charge of what, finding out if certain things are still in use or not. A task like "automate a monthly sales report" becomes a journey of discovery, where you don't have access to anything, and nothing lives where you expect it to.

A single piece of functional software, built from the ground up, is not usually what I find in a new project anymore. More often it's a hodgepodge of SaaS that's opaque and hard to reason about in whole, but each part made sense at the time.

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#107
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it depends how we define "good" and "bad". To me "good" means "produce working code that can be easily picked up by others". Because of that I suppose I don't fall into this mythical group of programmers that can crank out something in a week that teams struggle with for months. I've done it several times but it's not how I usually roll, plus teams can be super slow sometimes so single guy beating them isn'…

Consider yourself lucky for working at a place where you get recognition for "leaving the garden better for the next guy"! Of course, that also depends on the next guy taking the effort to understand your code and documentation instead of just thinking "I wouldn't have written it this way, so it must be bad", as many developers are wont to do unfortunately...

Oh, it hasn't been the norm, sadly -- but those several times it happened it felt amazing. ^_^

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#108
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One guy in Nebraska. There's about 4 people that really understand how ffmpeg works, and thousands of people that write stuff that runs on the top.

Do you think that it's sacred knowledge? Or just nobody cared enough to understand how ffmpeg works, because those guys are doing good work already? Also I don't really think that it's fair to claim something for everyone in the world. There are plenty of developers, forking some project and working silently upon it inside some big corporation. I'm sure that there's some chinese guy chuckling on your words as he writ…

Not just inside big corps either. Sometimes they just do not like the upstream devs and are not going to share.

One project I watch one dev in charge of the project is seeing comment after comment in the project is 'I will just keep these changes to myself then, closed' and specifically because of him. Lots of devs are keeping their stuff private.

I personally have done this in another project. I got tired of arguing with one dev over 2 lines of code. So my private version works. The public one is broken in that case. That was 2 years ago. It is still broken publicly and the forums for that group are telling them that...

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Current cloud deployment software is now so powerful that a lone developer can write and deploy entire systems: When was this ever different? Single developers always could barf out whole systems. And going by my experience, the relative quality of fullstack-devs today is not better than it was in the past, they just have now more gears moving. > And the salaries for developers are so much higher now than before. A…

When was it different? I mean, there was a time when the technology didn’t even exist, if we are being pedantic. But before cloud services, you could not “barf out” a “whole system.” Colo places weren’t as open as they are now; if you knew the right people and had access to cash to buy a server up front, sure you could barf out what you could afford. Before that, you’d have to have a number of landlines to provide a…

Of course, if you go back till a time when developer did not yet exist, then obviously it would not be possible. But at least since the industry started to exist as an industry (so 70s or 80s?), we always had single developers who could (and would) create whole systems for which others needed a whole team.

This is in itself nothing special. There also was always a price for this, which usually was quality and time. This didn't change till today, but as time moves on, things become simpler, so more people can do this now on a higher level in a shorter time.

> Colo places

What is that?

> if you knew the right people and had access to cash to buy a server up front

I'm not sure how old you are, but cheap webhosters exist since the 90s, and so do one man-web-companies. And before that you could misuse other means. Additionally, I'm not just talking about webdev, but development in general. Single developers creating whole mature applications and companies around them is nothing new.

Re: Hermit Programmers Are Dead

#110
post #39
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe "Bad Programmer" is more apt instead of "Hermit programmer" and yeah it is a no brainer that they are "dead"

Maybe "Bad Programmer" is more apt Some of the very best programmers I've ever met tick all those boxes. They could deliver in a week something other teams would struggle with for months. The problem of course came when other people would try to understand and build on what they had done. If you believe the quote that "Real Developers ship" then they where absolutely Real Developers.

Shipping untested , undocumented code is pretty easy. Those who don't do either are absolutely bad programmers. That doesn't mean that they're dumb or incapable, but testing and documenting is part of the definition of good programmer.
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