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New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

pcworld.com

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Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#51

Post by gumby »

hakfoo wrote: post #47
gumby wrote: post #23

In classic USB committee style, they try to do the right thing and still bungle the naming/marketing. Just like the absurd “hi-speed/super speed” debacle, they fail to mention what people really want to know: “Will this drive my monitor?” — bandwidth tells me most of what I need to know but to the average user it makes no sense. “Is this a fast cable for my external drive”? “Is this really expensive cable overkill fo…

Isn't charging also complicated by some fast-charge protocols? I know the phone accessory companies are always saying things like "Supports Qualcomm Quick Charge 23.45 with Sprinkles" in addition to "18 watts". I think the cables might more or less be the same, but it's still a complex ecosystem question. I have two devices with USB-C chargers. I can make a reasonable guess that the bullion-cube sized charger provide…

> Isn't charging also complicated by some fast-charge protocols? I know the phone accessory companies are always saying things like "Supports Qualcomm Quick Charge 23.45 with Sprinkles" in addition to "18 watts". I think the cables might more or less be the same, but it's still a complex ecosystem question.

Those weirdo proprietary protocols were intended to get around limitations of USB 3 charging capabilities over Tupe A connectors. Any phone with a Type C connector should support power delivery; if you charge it via a legacy A-C cable well yes, you’ll need the same charger you used to have.

I hope all that proprietary crap goes away soon — it also creates needless consumer confusion.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#52

Post by nikau »

dustintrex wrote: post #24
oddity wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a case of a standard coming along to a crowded market. Rather, this is the opposite scenario. USB-C won and now they have to deal with the fallout of unifying all the things past, present, and future.

Previously we had tons of incompatible plugs, but if the physical plug fit, you were reasonably assured that it would actually work. In our shiny new future everything is shaped like USB-C, but you can't tell whether anything will work simply by eyeballing the plug. I'm not convinced this is progress.

> Previously we had tons of incompatible plugs, but if the physical plug fit, you were reasonably assured that it would actually work.

I suspect you never did any work with 9 or 25 pin serial.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#53

Post by nikau »

userbinator wrote: post #20
Forge36 wrote: post #2

I know at some point I'm sure I asked for fewer connector types. Seeing it now: I suspect unique connectors to a purpose is insanely useful usability. Immediate failure feedback has it's uses. See NEMA outlet variation [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#/media/File:NEM...

I wish laptops would've standardised on the 20V barrel jack (maybe with slightly different sizes to denote current capability), like they almost did before USB-C came along.

What's the advantage of that over usb-pd chargers that also deliver 20V?

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#54

Post by nikau »

hakfoo wrote: post #47
gumby wrote: post #23

In classic USB committee style, they try to do the right thing and still bungle the naming/marketing. Just like the absurd “hi-speed/super speed” debacle, they fail to mention what people really want to know: “Will this drive my monitor?” — bandwidth tells me most of what I need to know but to the average user it makes no sense. “Is this a fast cable for my external drive”? “Is this really expensive cable overkill fo…

Isn't charging also complicated by some fast-charge protocols? I know the phone accessory companies are always saying things like "Supports Qualcomm Quick Charge 23.45 with Sprinkles" in addition to "18 watts". I think the cables might more or less be the same, but it's still a complex ecosystem question. I have two devices with USB-C chargers. I can make a reasonable guess that the bullion-cube sized charger provide…

You can get cheap $20 "hubs" that will do HDMI 60Hz at 4k, along with USB and power delivery on a single cable.

The caveat is USB will be restricted to USB2 speeds as they are typically using display port 1.2 which takes up all 4 high speed lanes.

Its a bit of a crapshoot buying them:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/pama8f/awaiti...

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#55

Post by nikau »

maxerickson wrote: post #6
city41 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently received a new work laptop in the mail. And IT had stuck a piece of paper inside explaining it is essential I only charge it with the charger it came with, other usb-c chargers/cables might not work and could possibly damage the laptop. I am very ignorant on usb-c, but to me it seems crazy it's come to things like that.

How true is it?

Not at all - its likely they wanted to reduce support calls from people who try and charge the laptop using mobile phone and other inappropriate chargers.

I use dell, Lenovo, & apple PD chargers interchangeably without issues.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#56

Post by Ginden »

jacquesm wrote: post #45
pishpash wrote: post #29

It seems to dilute the oneness, and hence the perceived value of USB-C, not to mention the logos are fugly.

It's the other way around. USB-C tries to be too many things at once and this leads to confusion. They should have either mandated that it only handles the top end of the spec at the physical level and gracefully degrades if that isn't available on either end (so at least the cable would be standard), or use physically different plugs to avoid accidental frying of equipment and things just plain not working. If the p…

> use physically different plugs to avoid accidental frying of equipment and things just plain not working.

Frying equipment is not possible with properly implemented USB devices and cable - because PD requires active negotiation.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#57

Post by izacus »

userbinator wrote: post #20
Forge36 wrote: post #2

I know at some point I'm sure I asked for fewer connector types. Seeing it now: I suspect unique connectors to a purpose is insanely useful usability. Immediate failure feedback has it's uses. See NEMA outlet variation [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#/media/File:NEM...

I wish laptops would've standardised on the 20V barrel jack (maybe with slightly different sizes to denote current capability), like they almost did before USB-C came along.

With USB-C charger, I can charge my:

- ANC Headphones

- Laptop

- Tablet

- Phone

- Portable in-ear headphones

and bunch of other stuff I carry around while traveling. All of those with a single 100W laptop charger.

I can't do that with a barrel connector. It's a huge improvement despite "confusion" everyone on this site loves harping on.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#58

Post by dustintrex »

nikau wrote: post #52
dustintrex wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Previously we had tons of incompatible plugs, but if the physical plug fit, you were reasonably assured that it would actually work. In our shiny new future everything is shaped like USB-C, but you can't tell whether anything will work simply by eyeballing the plug. I'm not convinced this is progress.

> Previously we had tons of incompatible plugs, but if the physical plug fit, you were reasonably assured that it would actually work. I suspect you never did any work with 9 or 25 pin serial.

Touché, I actually did and even soldered my own at times! I'm tempted to say that's different (tm) though, since you generally had zero expectation that random DB-9/25 cables would be interchangeable.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#59

Post by qwerty456127 »

gumby wrote: post #23

In classic USB committee style, they try to do the right thing and still bungle the naming/marketing. Just like the absurd “hi-speed/super speed” debacle, they fail to mention what people really want to know: “Will this drive my monitor?” — bandwidth tells me most of what I need to know but to the average user it makes no sense. “Is this a fast cable for my external drive”? “Is this really expensive cable overkill fo…

> most people will have to guess, and will get the more expensive one “just in case”

Good. The more full-features and the less underfeatured USB cables are bought and found around - the better for everyone. I don't buy/grab a USB cable "for the drive" I expect it to do the job every time I happen to need a USB cable.

In fact I'd like a single ultimate USB-n-All logo to exist which would mean the cable is fully and reliably capable of all (including extensions like Thunderbolt) the possible USB cable usages which existed at the moment the specific generation of USB was released or became relevant.

Having the same connector for everything is not a value worth the hassle. Having the same cable for everything is.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#60

Post by hadlock »

maxerickson wrote: post #6
city41 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently received a new work laptop in the mail. And IT had stuck a piece of paper inside explaining it is essential I only charge it with the charger it came with, other usb-c chargers/cables might not work and could possibly damage the laptop. I am very ignorant on usb-c, but to me it seems crazy it's come to things like that.

How true is it?

I think that piece of paper spreading FUD is a simple attempt by the IT department to minimize the number of people trying to charge their laptop off of an 10-18w cell phone charger and generating charging failure tickets in the system

Dell famously won't charge off anything less than 65w USB-C PD when turned on, and I think 30w when turned off. Apple will trickle charge when off, on 15w (standard phone charger) if the charger truly is USB-C PD compliant (about 50% of the time these days)

Given that most people don't own a 65W USB-C PD charger (yet) I can see the IT department adding warnings in an attempt to avoid confusion and reduce the amount of extra work.

That said, I've been using USB-C 65W chargers since the original Pixelbook came out + Nexus 5, and later Anker branded 65W chargers and I've never had any problems. I generally don't use off brand stuff though.

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