New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing • Hacker News Board

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#31

Post by pishpash » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

presentation wrote: post #14

Forge36 wrote: post #2

I know at some point I'm sure I asked for fewer connector types. Seeing it now: I suspect unique connectors to a purpose is insanely useful usability. Immediate failure feedback has it's uses. See NEMA outlet variation [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#/media/File:NEM...

For the purpose of power delivery this makes sense, but for the purpose of sending data down a wire, most people’s use cases can be done with the throughput of most usb-c cables, it is really convenient to just use any cable lying around for any data usage.

It was a missed opportunity to decouple power delivery from data link at the port through a visible, mechanical design like maybe a two-part connector. That way the data-only portion should always work as long as you've got a proper cable.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#32

Post by CameronNemo » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #4

Finally, a clear logo showing if a cable supports 240W. The USB 40Gbps logo is fine too. Now can we also get some logos for the other speeds: 20Gbps, 10Gbps, 5Gbps, 0.4Gbps (480Mbit). Also the other (PD 2.0+) power levels: 100W, 65W, 45W, 27W, 15W. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_Power_Deliver...

Hmm the article did not clearly state this, but I assumed that the 240W / 40Gbps labels were just an example. Hopefully they are not neglecting a huge portion of the market that does not need that much PD...

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#33

Post by maxerickson » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

pishpash wrote: post #29

It seems to dilute the oneness, and hence the perceived value of USB-C, not to mention the logos are fugly.

The different cables can already physically exist, so it's not really changing those things a lot, just making cable identification easier.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#34

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:28 AM UTC

kortex wrote: post #27

dustintrex wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Previously we had tons of incompatible plugs, but if the physical plug fit, you were reasonably assured that it would actually work. In our shiny new future everything is shaped like USB-C, but you can't tell whether anything will work simply by eyeballing the plug. I'm not convinced this is progress.

Or, you just buy ones adequate to your needs. Buy one visual style for charging, another for data, or label them if you are really neurotic. You can definitely tell the better ones, they are thicker and stiffer. I'm all too eager to deprecate my box o' rando mini/micro/meso USB A/B/hard drive cables.

[deleted]

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#35

Post by lmm » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:31 AM UTC

Unless you can get Apple to agree to use these logos on their official cables, this kind of standard isn't going anywhere. And I don't think Apple would be seen dead with logos that look like that.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#36

Post by randy408 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:31 AM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #22

white-flame wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Across USB-C land, there's the various USB3s as well as Thunderbolt, DisplayPort, PCIe, and probably others, too, all sharing the same connector with arbitrary overlaps or omissions of compatibilities across the N-dimensional matrix.

USB 4 is supposed to fix this by basically removing all the optionality. Of course I don’t know how you tell if a device/cable is reliably USB 4 or not.

Doesn't USB4 also introduce its own optional PCIe tunneling spec which isn't exactly the same as Thunderbolt?

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#37

Post by Causality1 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:33 AM UTC

I don't need cables or chargers to be less confusing. I need the damn ports on devices to be less confusing. One of my family's phones supports Dash charging and DisplayLink but not usb-3 speeds or charging while outputting video. One of our phones supports HDMI out while charging but only supports QuickCharge v2. One of my tablets will charge over its type-c port but only at 400mA, and you're supposed to use a different port for full speed charging. Then there's my Nintendo Switch that violates so many parts of the USB spec some of my OEM phone chargers won't charge it at all.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#38

Post by CameronNemo » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #35

Unless you can get Apple to agree to use these logos on their official cables, this kind of standard isn't going anywhere. And I don't think Apple would be seen dead with logos that look like that.

Honestly apple does not need those specific logos. They just need to label their cables in the first place. They could use their own trademark(s). They are big enough that tons of people trust them and will take an apple with 100W and 40G written on it at face value. Then tons of people who don't trust Apple will scrutinize their offerings heavily.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#39

Post by hbosch » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

Please, for the love of god, make it obvious if a USB C cable can be used as a display cable or not. One thing that absolutely blows about USB C is that they all look the same, but to connect my LG UltraFine to my GTX 2070 I had to do literally hours of research before I could find a reliable cable on Amazon that was a “bidirectional USB C DisplayPort” cable because I naively assumed that USB C was a general purpose cable type that could do data/display/power/etc. Having one plug be capable (or incapable) of doing so many things melted my brain.

Why can’t all USB C cables just do all the things? To me, the fact that I can plug a cable into my graphics card… and it fits… and then it does nothing… that’s awful physical UX.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#40

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

CameronNemo wrote: post #30

gumby wrote: post #23

In classic USB committee style, they try to do the right thing and still bungle the naming/marketing. Just like the absurd “hi-speed/super speed” debacle, they fail to mention what people really want to know: “Will this drive my monitor?” — bandwidth tells me most of what I need to know but to the average user it makes no sense. “Is this a fast cable for my external drive”? “Is this really expensive cable overkill fo…

I don't know much about altmodes. What does the cable need to do to make displayport work right?

It needs the USB3 diff pairs. It is perfectly possible to have a USB2-only cable with USB-C plugs. You never know with fly by night brands where they've skimped on production costs.