iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#91

Post by mensetmanusman » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:00 PM UTC

luegen wrote: post #89

csomar wrote: post #46

I'm a bit torn about this. I think a good compromise is for Apple to offer selling "genuine parts" to anyone who practically wants it; and maybe, allow changing parts once the main owner release control. Apple's devices are quite expensive. iCloud locking have made them worth less in the black-market, but the components are still worth something. This will make Apple's devices worth next to nothing in the black marke…

Petty theft is more an issue of economic inequality. If the criminal had an incentive for being honorable citizens, then theft would not happen.

Not sure. If you add up damages from theft, by far the rich and powerful steal more in absolute terms.

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#92

Post by elzbardico » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:00 PM UTC

franga2000 wrote: post #35

ksidn wrote: post #6

Every time an iphone is released we have to see this? I don't want to repair my phone. It's got a two year warranty, and after two years if it breaks I'll buy another.

Any chance you'd consider the out there idea that some people: 1. don't want to fill up landfills with 90%-functional devices that they're too lazy to have repaired 2. can't afford to spend more than a month's salary on a brand new but functionally identical device every two years 3. might have data that's important to them on the device that they want recovered. Just because you wish to be a careless consumer doesn'…

Yes. Society should follow your desires or else….

Sometimes I wonder where all those millennial Mussolinis came from.

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#93

Post by mensetmanusman » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

franga2000 wrote: post #32

djanogo wrote: post #21

I have to defend Apple for these verification checks. I bought replacement display online and replaced it myself, after I was all done found the display was fake based on bad colors. It was old iPhone which didn't have fake component detection, I traded in that phone and now somebody else has iPhone with poor display. iPhones get used for longer period of time by multiple users and they carry high resale value, if th…

This would be a non-issue if you could just buy the replacement screen (or any other part) from Apple or their manufacturers directly, no? Sure, it's nice if the phone can tell you that a part is non-genuine in case you got scammed, but the fact that this is even a problem is because Apple refuses to sell parts and makes repair even using genuine parts as difficult as possible. They created a problem, then "solved" i…

This x 1,000,000.

I have heard that Apple’s environmental concern is all talk until they empower people to get more life out of their devices to reduce electronic waste.

It’s a convincing argument when one notes that their highest priorities for ‘green’ initiatives align with improving their profit margins.

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#94

Post by mensetmanusman » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:05 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #55

HelixEndeavor wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Apple also disables functionality if you replace the part with another genuine part from another iPhone. The only excuse is money, money, money.

Actually there is another good reason for this, and that is preventing theft. What is the point of stealing an iPhone 13 if you can't just sell the phone on (because of iCloud lock) and you can't chop-shop any of the expensive parts because they're all cryptographically registered?

This is true, but there is absolutely a solution here that Apple could implement: verification of users who want genuine replacement parts.

Apple could empower their customers to be good citizens of the earth who want to reduce electronic waste while simultaneously making the lives of thieves difficult.

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#95

Post by makeitdouble » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

kitsunesoba wrote: post #23

djanogo wrote: post #21

I have to defend Apple for these verification checks. I bought replacement display online and replaced it myself, after I was all done found the display was fake based on bad colors. It was old iPhone which didn't have fake component detection, I traded in that phone and now somebody else has iPhone with poor display. iPhones get used for longer period of time by multiple users and they carry high resale value, if th…

It also presumably further discourages theft since it negatively impacts the ability to “part out” stolen devices to work around activation locks. Basically once the owner remotely locks the stolen device, it becomes almost worthless until it’s back in the owner’s possession.

This looks to me like a tradeoff we collectively haven’t agreed upon for any other device.

To take the perennial car analogy, car theft is a widespread enough phenomenon, but we haven’t settled on breaking central functionalities each time a repair is done outside network.

To push a bit further, steeply lowering phone price would also critically deter theft, why not go that option if it’s that important ?

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#96

Post by tjoff » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

mojuba wrote: post #31

I have another hypothesis also that this is done for security reasons. Imagine yo are at a risk of high-profile spying. You lose your phone and then it reappears somehow - you should no longer trust your phone if these security features weren't in place. Maybe, just maybe, it's one of the reasons Apple does this.

There isn't a practical scenario where using a device you suspect have been in the hands of an adversary isn't grounds for termination.

Game over.

It is not a relevant argument in this context.

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#97

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

luegen wrote: post #89

csomar wrote: post #46

I'm a bit torn about this. I think a good compromise is for Apple to offer selling "genuine parts" to anyone who practically wants it; and maybe, allow changing parts once the main owner release control. Apple's devices are quite expensive. iCloud locking have made them worth less in the black-market, but the components are still worth something. This will make Apple's devices worth next to nothing in the black marke…

Petty theft is more an issue of economic inequality. If the criminal had an incentive for being honorable citizens, then theft would not happen.

[deleted]

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#98

Post by elzbardico » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:20 PM UTC

makeitdouble wrote: post #90

elzbardico wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because what is a personal optimum not always is a collective optimum. One of the things that I like on iPhones is their high resale value. A lot of iPhone users trade their old phones for new ones. I voluntarily choose for that by switching from Android to Apple.

Are you saying that your personal optimum for resale value primes over the collective optimum of having a replacement parts ecosystem ?

No. I am saying that given the size of the resale market of iPhones, I’d bet most people are more interested on that. If it were otherwise we would see more people not buying iPhones because of that. You see this phenomenon in cars, where brands with low reliability or repairability usually need more discounts to be sold.

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#99

Post by Nextgrid » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

elzbardico wrote: post #86

Nextgrid wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual authentication & crypto is happening inside the main SOC. The Face ID sensor is (or should be) just a dumb camera - there's no reason for it to be part of the chain of trust.

Of course there is. That’s how you avoid replay attacks.

Can't you "replay" that data physically by creating a face mask matching the captured data and then presenting it to a legitimate sensor?

IMO the security of the system is that the 3D face data is reasonably secret (you probably can't reconstruct it from a single picture, you'd need pictures from all angles) and the SOC only allows a few attempts before falling back to passcode.

If you have the face data, you don't need to tamper with the hardware, and if you don't have that data then tampering with the sensor won't get you anywhere.

Re: iPhone 13 teardown and repair assessment [video]

#100

Post by dunnevens » Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #44

huuuz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An iphone can perfectly last six years.

Not without repairs.

Battery needs replacing on my 6s+, but otherwise it's working well with zero repairs. And considering my use cases, I can put up with the battery as-is. I'll probably keep it as my main device until next year.