Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#61

Post by robbiep » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

GravitasFailure wrote: post #25

krisoft wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your doctor wouldn’t say that. Your doctor would prescribe you polylepiscin or some other vaguelly medical and scientifical sounding name. You wouldn’t know that the compound originally was found in black mamba venom unless you like geeking out on medicine history. (And if you like geeking out on that you would already know that nearly all drugs comes from weird things.)

I do enjoy geeking out over medical things in general and would trust that an approved pain killer would not be straight up venom and will happily take it, especially if it lives up to the hype. I'm still going to give any doctor that prescribes it to me just a little bit of grief, though.

Wait till you find what we use salmon sperm for

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#62

Post by eth0up » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

nonameiguess wrote: post #34

eth0up wrote: post #8

I really hope this goes somewhere. I've been left on the curbside with a caduceus up my backside because of self-righteousness, paranoia and hysterics. If an analgesic can be created without committing the atrocity of inadvertently imparting a synthetic sense of wellbeing too, much suffering would end. Just don't poison it with acetaminophen! Maybe I'll abandon my unfruitful hunt for opium lettuce and raise snakes in…

I understand exactly what you're saying and it's a shame you're currently being downvoted. People up in arms against opioids and in favor of all the restrictions that keep people suffering have clearly never experienced chronic pain. I don't want to downplay addiction risk, but everyone I have ever seen get addicted had it happen with severe mitigating circumstances like job loss, general financial insecurity, family…

I wrote a lengthy, now deleted reply. I'm glad you recovered unscathed and I appreciate the balanced insight and story.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#63

Post by vore » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

samhw wrote: post #60

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any dictionary since then will give a primary meaning of cruelty and savagery, not just 'primitive and unsophisticated' And how would those dictionaries define savagery? Webster's first entries are "not domesticated or under human control" and "lacking the restraints normal to civilized human beings" [1]. The penultimate comment works with savage and cruel substituted for primitive and unsophisticated. (Though didn…

> And how would those dictionaries define savagery? I mean, a good nothing-up-my-sleeve definition is the Google one: https://www.google.com/search?q=define+savagery https://www.google.com/search?q=define+savage Respectfully, I think you're hunting down odd-one-out definitions that support your theory - not necessarily consciously. All of these words connote cruelty. The overwhelming majority of dictionary definition…

I don't think arguing about the semantics of "barbarism" really takes away from the original overarching argument: nature is primitive and cruel but humans in general at least try to alleviate that kind of cruelty seen in non-human nature.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#64

Post by nyokodo » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #23

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> FTA: They admit to being completely baffled about why the mamba would produce it. It's because they are scientists. Scientists are always "baffled", in the news.

"the mind that is not baffled is not employed the impeded stream is the one that sings" -- Wendell Berry

That’s a simple and lovely poem that speaks to me deeply. Thanks for teaching me it exists.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#65

Post by jes » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

robbiep wrote: post #61

GravitasFailure wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do enjoy geeking out over medical things in general and would trust that an approved pain killer would not be straight up venom and will happily take it, especially if it lives up to the hype. I'm still going to give any doctor that prescribes it to me just a little bit of grief, though.

Wait till you find what we use salmon sperm for

I’ll see your salmon sperm and raise you one penis facial[1], as recommended by Sandra Bullock and Cate Blanchett.

Few people seem to care that the source of the active ingredient in the penis facial is obtained through the egregious action of cutting healthy, valuable tissue off of male Korean infants who have no diagnosis of defect or disease.

[1] https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/the-penis-facial-is-the-latest...

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#66

Post by xkcd-sucks » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

A similar venom-based analgesic that actually became a drug is Ziconotide [0], a selective calcium channel blocker contained in a certain type of cone snail venom (the actual drug has some minor modifications for stability but the structure was already perfect re: activity). Unfortunately as a peptide it's not orally active and has to be administered directly into cerebrospinal fluid.

I only know about it because the person who discovered it gave a wonderful talk at my grad school. Apparently venomous sea snails produce incredibly diverse mixtures of incredibly receptor-selective peptides. They used a cheap phenotypic screen in which snails were purchased from fishermen, venom fractionated by HPLC, individual fractions injected into mice, behaviors were characterized and interesting ones flagged for further study.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziconotide

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#67

Post by trutannus » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #20

mrestko wrote: post #19

The title is not good--lots of meds are betting than morphine...that's why we have all the other opioids: hydromorphone, fentanyl, remifentinil, sufentinil, oxycododone, etc. If you look at the Nature abstract linked from the news article, all they claim there is that the analgesic effects can be, "as strong as morphine." This also a protein which is inherently more expensive and difficult to turn into a drug compare…

For a popular magazine that seems fine... analgesic as strong as morphine + fewer side effects = better overall ... no?

It's fine, morphine is used as a 'standard' for opiate and other pain killer efficacy. So often that the term 'morphine equivalency' exists in medical documents.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#68

Post by goldenkey » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

samhw wrote: post #59

goldenkey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Most of that, like plant protein powders, is due to heavy metals in the soil the plant is grown in, or adulterants. I've been using Kratom for over 5 years with no elevated liver enzymes. It's actually made me healthier since it, like other dark green leafy vegetables, has many micronutrients and minerals. NEVER buy kratom from a gas station or head-shop. That's likely where most of incidents stem from.

To anyone reading this: please ignore what this person is saying. Addicts will rationalise everything, and blame every negative side-effect on 'adulterants' or 'low-quality supply' or other varieties of 'stuff I would never do myself, compared to my perfect and healthful regimen'. Kratom is not good for you.

It's a pain relieving plant. You got problems mate. Go to the nearest pain clinic and start your protest there. Make sure you slap the opioids out of every patient's hands who are suffering from chronic pain. Call them an addict for kicks, even when they have a perfectly normal life.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#69

Post by goldenkey » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

gremloni wrote: post #43

goldenkey wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those drugs aren't better, in my experience, as a chronic pain patient. Morphine is way less addictive, longer lasting, with fewer side effects. Not to mention, it's natural, one of the main alkaloids from poppy. Now, I'm not a dolt who thinks natural is better. However, most synthetics are strictly worse from a therapeutic standpoint. This view is based on my experience with them and from my discussions with other p…

Kratom is such a terrible overall experience. I did it recreationally a few times and it’s always headaches and nausea the next day in some kind of hangover that lasts multiple days.

Lots of people have had bad experiences with kratom giving them headaches/nausea. This is largely due to poor quality kratom from head-shops and gas stations or from consuming excessive doses. Never buy Kratom that isn't lab tested with GC/MS. And don't take too much of any opioid unless you want motion sickness.

There are lots of strains as well. You may have had a racier green strain. Red Mae Daeng would be closer to a conventional opioid.

Don't listen to /u/samhw. He clearly has no understanding of what it is to use something therapeutically versus in a maladaptive way. I on the other hand have a pre-med degree.

With any drug comes a bit of risk of addiction or dependency. Even antidepressants. Having a healthy attitude and lifestyle and avoiding the stronger things like oxycodone, heroin, methamphetamine, etc is wise.

/u/samhw please avoid discussing topics you know nothing about while labeling those who do as 'addicts.'

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#70

Post by cheese_van » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 6:49 PM UTC

nyokodo wrote: post #64

wwweston wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the mind that is not baffled is not employed the impeded stream is the one that sings" -- Wendell Berry

That’s a simple and lovely poem that speaks to me deeply. Thanks for teaching me it exists.

A snake, you see, Has no legs to flee. When frightened He does not dither, He slithers.

(high school poet me, neither lovely nor deep, but I can't help myself)