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Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

bbc.com

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Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#51

Post by samhw »

daveguy wrote: post #16
_hilro wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess it's just a genetic glitch and not some conscious decision or purposeful design.

It doesn't have to be a conscious decision or purposeful design to be "there for a reason". Evolution tends toward solutions because the population that happens to be closer to a solution are more likely to survive. Nothing the op said was incompatible with evolution.

In addition to that, it's certainly not a 'glitch'. A genetic glitch would be a (possibly short-lived) mutation which is still in the 'beta' phase, so to speak, or else a harmful side effect of an otherwise beneficial mutation (e.g. albinism). This is a paradigmatic example of an ordinary useful mutation which persisted because it increased fitness.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#52

Post by samhw »

Symbiote wrote: post #31
mrestko wrote: post #19

The title is not good--lots of meds are betting than morphine...that's why we have all the other opioids: hydromorphone, fentanyl, remifentinil, sufentinil, oxycododone, etc. If you look at the Nature abstract linked from the news article, all they claim there is that the analgesic effects can be, "as strong as morphine." This also a protein which is inherently more expensive and difficult to turn into a drug compare…

Also diamorphine (heroine), which has several advantages over morphine and is used medically outside the USA.

Yup, it's used widely in end-of-life care here in the UK (I remember my mum once saying to me, when we were discussing euthanasia, that there's no doctor in the country who hasn't 'accidentally' given a little too much diamorphine to someone who was on the verge of death and in pain).

It's useful, but I imagine it's tainted in the US by the association with street heroin - somewhat curiously, since fentanyl apparently hasn't been tainted by its recreational associations.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#53

Post by JumpCrisscross »

samhw wrote: post #48
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> frustrated by and fail to understand how people can actually believe nature is barbaric. Nature is nature, it is kill or be killed, that is actually the natural order of things. Barbaric literally means primitive and unsophisticated. (Sophistication referring to knowledge and culture.) When we say something is barbaric, we mean it is in its natural, unrefined, untouched-by-civilisation state. That might make the st…

> Barbaric literally means primitive and unsophisticated This makes for the foundation of a nice story, but no, that's not what 'barbaric' means. It's not what you'll find in any dictionary, and it's not what the root of the word is. Barbaros, in Greek, referred to non-Greeks, with an early connotation of foreignness. It picked up a connotation of cruelty and savageness as early as the Romans. Any dictionary since th…

> Any dictionary since then will give a primary meaning of cruelty and savagery, not just 'primitive and unsophisticated'

And how would those dictionaries define savagery? Webster's first entries are "not domesticated or under human control" and "lacking the restraints normal to civilized human beings" [1]. The penultimate comment works with savage and cruel substituted for primitive and unsophisticated.

(Though didn't know the etymology. An honest thank you for that.)

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/savage

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#54

Post by h2odragon »

jack_riminton wrote: post #21
h2odragon wrote: post #2

I would much rather tend a field of poppies than a mamba snake ranch. Poppies hardly ever run away from thunderstorms.

Any experts on here know whether it'd be possible to create a synthetic version? It would've expected that issue to be mentioned in the article tbh

I could spray paint a garter snake for ya, would that do?

(sorry)

Venoms are often a bitch because they're not stable, I think. manufactured at point of use for a good reason.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#55

Post by jack_riminton »

h2odragon wrote: post #54
jack_riminton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any experts on here know whether it'd be possible to create a synthetic version? It would've expected that issue to be mentioned in the article tbh

I could spray paint a garter snake for ya, would that do? (sorry) Venoms are often a bitch because they're not stable, I think. manufactured at point of use for a good reason.

That's interesting thanks, I suppose that's why we've not heard anything about this discovery since

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#57

Post by mrestko »

rich_sasha wrote: post #20
mrestko wrote: post #19

The title is not good--lots of meds are betting than morphine...that's why we have all the other opioids: hydromorphone, fentanyl, remifentinil, sufentinil, oxycododone, etc. If you look at the Nature abstract linked from the news article, all they claim there is that the analgesic effects can be, "as strong as morphine." This also a protein which is inherently more expensive and difficult to turn into a drug compare…

For a popular magazine that seems fine... analgesic as strong as morphine + fewer side effects = better overall ... no?

It's hard to know what the side effects are since it hasn't been tested in humans and is not in a form where it would be a useful drug. We've had plently of promising drugs turn out to have unexpected and sometimes devestating side effects when tested in humans.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#58

Post by samhw »

gremloni wrote: post #43
goldenkey wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those drugs aren't better, in my experience, as a chronic pain patient. Morphine is way less addictive, longer lasting, with fewer side effects. Not to mention, it's natural, one of the main alkaloids from poppy. Now, I'm not a dolt who thinks natural is better. However, most synthetics are strictly worse from a therapeutic standpoint. This view is based on my experience with them and from my discussions with other p…

Kratom is such a terrible overall experience. I did it recreationally a few times and it’s always headaches and nausea the next day in some kind of hangover that lasts multiple days.

I haven't heard of kratom being used by non-addicts, so I'm not surprised you wouldn't like it - it's like a non-smoker using nicotine patches. It's mainly used by people detoxing from stronger opioids.

I did it when I was coming off heroin (locked myself in my parents' country house for a fortnight or so, took ibogaine and kratom for withdrawals, came out fatigued but basically well). Even then, I found it extremely acrid and unappetising, and not even the resulting 'high' was particularly pleasant. I wouldn't ever take it if I weren't experiencing brutal heroin withdrawals.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#59

Post by samhw »

goldenkey wrote: post #46
yung_steezy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that that stuff is bad for your liver. Worth keeping an eye out for signs of jaundice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa#Liver_toxic...

Thank you. Most of that, like plant protein powders, is due to heavy metals in the soil the plant is grown in, or adulterants. I've been using Kratom for over 5 years with no elevated liver enzymes. It's actually made me healthier since it, like other dark green leafy vegetables, has many micronutrients and minerals. NEVER buy kratom from a gas station or head-shop. That's likely where most of incidents stem from.

To anyone reading this: please ignore what this person is saying. Addicts will rationalise everything, and blame every negative side-effect on 'adulterants' or 'low-quality supply' or other varieties of 'stuff I would never do myself, compared to my perfect and healthful regimen'. Kratom is not good for you.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#60

Post by samhw »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
samhw wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Barbaric literally means primitive and unsophisticated This makes for the foundation of a nice story, but no, that's not what 'barbaric' means. It's not what you'll find in any dictionary, and it's not what the root of the word is. Barbaros, in Greek, referred to non-Greeks, with an early connotation of foreignness. It picked up a connotation of cruelty and savageness as early as the Romans. Any dictionary since th…

> Any dictionary since then will give a primary meaning of cruelty and savagery, not just 'primitive and unsophisticated' And how would those dictionaries define savagery? Webster's first entries are "not domesticated or under human control" and "lacking the restraints normal to civilized human beings" [1]. The penultimate comment works with savage and cruel substituted for primitive and unsophisticated. (Though didn…

> And how would those dictionaries define savagery?

I mean, a good nothing-up-my-sleeve definition is the Google one: https://www.google.com/search?q=define+savagery https://www.google.com/search?q=define+savage

Respectfully, I think you're hunting down odd-one-out definitions that support your theory - not necessarily consciously. All of these words connote cruelty. The overwhelming majority of dictionary definitions bear that out.

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