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Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

theguardian.com

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Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't see the big, "respectable" unions get involved because under the Taft-Hartley Act general strikes are pretty much illegal. https://web.archive.org/web/20120501041417/http://inthesetim... The thing is, they can't arrest everybody without turning the USA into more of a prison than it already is and setting the stage for John Carpenter's ESCAPE FROM AMERICA. October 15 is a good day for a strike, but in the US…

> https://octoberstrike.com/ Too bad they mixed political ideology in what would have been otherwise a unifying populist movement. Remember, most socialists are upper middle class and above. > Our Goals: 25% corporate tax rate (No loopholes) Free Healthcare for all 12 weeks paid paternity and maternity leave $20 minimum wage 4 day work week Stricter Environmental Regulations on Corporations (Bans on single use and mi…

> every socialist I talk to actually think a 15-25 hours week of work is sufficient for society to function

I'm a libertarian. But I'll point out that full time was 40 hours before women entered the workforce, doubling the amount of workers. Add in technological progress and the gains from offshoring, and 15 hours per week might even be too high.

From my perspective, all that surplus has gone to supporting the value of the dollar in the face of extreme monetary inflation (the dynamic that MMT proponents are trying to double down on), creating many make-work jobs centered around the new money fountains - eg Wall Street.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Positive rights leads to slavery Does the positive right for every child to receive 12 years of education result in slavery?

This is kinda tangential and hella cynical, so feel free to ignore the following. > Does the positive right for every child to receive 12 years of education result in slavery? It isn't slavery. It's just imprisonment. At least, that's how it felt to me and it's how it feels to a lot of kids who haven't lost touch with their own true feelings in order to please the adults around them. I don't think children actually g…

> It's just imprisonment

I think you misunderstood my comment. I was countering the claim that positive rights (such as the right to healthcare) cause slavery (for the doctor). In the context of TeeMassive's comment, he was implying that doctors would be forced to provide their labor to patients if the government declared a right to healthcare. My comment about how the right to childhood education does not cause slavery was referring to the teachers point of view, ie. that the teachers are not enslaved.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a "free market" tenants have no rights. Their rights are what is mutually agreed upon in the rental agreement. > without laws to prevent it, landlords could arbitrarily raise rents whenever they felt like it. Many rental contracts have clauses specifying when and how much the rent can change. Landlords can demand whatever they want, but a tenant would have to agree to it. Tenants can also demand whatever they wa…

contacts only work because we don't live in a few market. without regulation, a contract is just a piece of paper

Contracts are not regulations. But the government provides contract enforcement, which is an essential part of a free market.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#84
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vacant real estate can be quite a drain on your money. Vacant houses, for example, attract squatters, thieves and vandals. They still cost property taxes, insurance, upkeep, and your time.

If you buy a $5m house in a place where the property prices double in 10 years (eg some parts of London), it can still be worthwhile no matter what else happens .

It's even more worthwhile to collect rent on it for 10 years. How much rent can you accrue in 10 years on a posh $5m house?

A price doubling in 10 years is only a 7% rate of return, which is below what the stock market in the US averages.

(Prices may double, but you've got inflation, taxes, insurance, vandalism, theft, maintenance expenses, and non-trivial amounts of your time in the meantime. None of this is free.)

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Bourgeois use the Proletariat as a tool to overtake power from the owners and royal blood. That also goes for every single Marxist revolutionaries including Marx and Engels. Very conformable upper class educated intellectuals obsessed by power dynamics and being seen as enlightened prophets of "the workers", which they know very little of and can barely relate to. > Labor unrest works the other way: the owners,…

There's plenty of examples of marxist revolutionaries that were dirt poor literally all over the world.

And may more that weren't, especially in the leadership positions. The major lack of interest and even the opposition of the actual workers were always a problem in every Marxist revolutions.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land and Real Estate has other aspects of the demand aside from just "a roof over your head" though. Location and other factors play into it in a big way. For instance if you have a parcel of undeveloped land at a lakeshore, the supply isn't "all land available in the region", it's "All land along that lakeshore" which is a much smaller supply. And lakes are generally a desirable place to live, so the demand is likel…

It doesn't really matter that there are exceptions where some areas are naturally more desirable because land isn't fungible. What matters is that there are available housing units approaching the limit of construction cost pricing so that people can have a place to live without being affected by luxuries like "wanting a lakefront home."

My point isn't that there aren't some exceptions it's that there are tons, maybe literally hundreds or thousands of factors into the supply/demand equation here.

what kind of internet is available in the area? How close are you to grocery stores? Is there a HOA that you have to pay dues to? What's the weather like? Is the home up to date or is the wiring and plumbing likely to need a lot of work? How big is the lot? How walkable is the neighbourhood? Is it near a smelly dump? What's the crime rate like? What are the schools in the area like, how close are they? How much access is there to transit?

It's not as simple as just "Build more housing" society also has to adequately service the people who want to live in that housing. If our lower income housing is all just bare minimum roof over your head and no access to anything then no one will want to live there, which also means that supply will not affect the demand on housing that has better access to amenities.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that in high demand areas, it can be profitable for people to buy property purely as speculation without ever having people live there.

As I pointed out earlier, this problem is solved by adding building supply to balance out the supply-demand imbalance causing property to appreciate and be a source of speculation. No one will "invest" in real estate if adequate supply causes no price increases. Any ad-hoc state involved bandaids like rent-control, foreign ownership laws, etc. are unnecessary.

How do you add building supply when there is no undeveloped land? There are no empty lots in high demand areas.

You'd have to increase density, and most places it will be difficult to displace people from their homes to tear them down and redevelop them.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Bourgeois use the Proletariat as a tool to overtake power from the owners and royal blood. That also goes for every single Marxist revolutionaries including Marx and Engels. Very conformable upper class educated intellectuals obsessed by power dynamics and being seen as enlightened prophets of "the workers", which they know very little of and can barely relate to. > Labor unrest works the other way: the owners,…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam#:~:text=S... .

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

Even if they came from poor families, the founders of the Black Panthers were two college students, not workers. Malcolm X was not a Marxist.

> https://www.city-journal.org/chile-demonstrations

Demonstrations are almost only a fraction of the most activist of the youth. And yet no "spontaneous workers revolt". Also from the article:

> Chile’s middle class, rather than resisting the leftists, has joined the popular uprising. Why would this class, which didn’t exist a generation ago—it emerged out of the relative prosperity associated with neoliberalism and has entered the phase of rising expectations—endorse the revolt?

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam#:~:text=S...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

Again, college educated, not an oppressed and poor worker.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#89
post #2

The price of everything, from my perspective, has gone insane within the last few months. I would __much__ rather the market were satisfied with more houses, apartments, everything such that people could afford to live places and thus inflation / stagflation weren't the natural result of everyone trying to get ahead and increasing just their own wage. All of the other aspects of the jobs, such as safety conditions an…

So basically: shut up because your fight for your right is inconvenient for me at the moment, right?

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. You obviously do not have a lot of experience in manufacturing and technology. Factories can close for many valid reasons: inefficient process, lack of resources, lack of talents, consolidation with other factories, etc. These are all n…

> Factories can close for many valid reasons: inefficient process, lack of resources, lack of talents, consolidation with other factories, etc. These are all necessary for any kind of healthy systems. That's not what the St. Louis FED is measuring. They are trying to build an index of maximum sustainable production. We are at about 76% which has declined from the 1970s level of ~90%. > Immigration is simply moving th…

> That's not what the St. Louis FED is measuring. They are trying to build an index of maximum sustainable production. We are at about 76% which has declined from the 1970s level of ~90%.

I guess you're talking about this graph: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CAPUTLGMFDS

The problem is that you're only comparing the peaks of the graph at 1970 with the average of now. If you look at it you will find that the average has declined from 80% from the 70s to 75% in the last decade, not the 15% figure you're alluding to.

And even then to jump to the claim that it means that we can cut working hours based on that gap is just a giant leap of logic, and is not what the FED of St. Louis is claiming. Again I think it shows a basic lack of knowledge of industry and manufacturing. Just mindlessly producing stuff leads to waste, WIP and various other problems. This principle even applies to IT and software development.

Having a low stock rotation rate is bad. Having a too high occupancy rate is as bad as too low (85% is considered good).

At best this is a measure of efficiency of usage of land occupied by industrial plants and a very very short term predictor of recessions.

> I doubt that. Moving labor from a low productivity country to a high productivity one would mean overall more goods are produced. With international solidarity, both countries can be helped. Mass immigration can be somewhat disruptive, but most of that conflict is based on economic fears that they are taking jobs or using limited resources. If they aren't then there's little problem.

International solidarity doesn't really exist except for small scale charity. The reality is that game theory prevails when it comes to different group of people separated by continental distances. And by the way developed countries are already doing that. In Canada we frequently employ Mexicans and other workers from South America to pick our crops. This already happens in a capitalist society. Also not all labor is equal and that balance between high skills and low skills workers must be maintained even in a planned economy. All communist countries limit free movement of labor.

Lowering of wages and conditions by cheap labor is a real phenomenon that even populist socialists acknowledge.

> There are other reasons people have problems with immigration, but I don't consider most of those valid.

This is not really a compelling argument.

> Well, either the workers themselves spontaneously or a socialist government grabs it with force of arms. A socialist government is more inclined to help workers than a capitalist one, but even some capitalist ones have cooperative businesses. Countries have different experiences with real workplace democracy including places like Spain, Italy, and the US. Yugoslavia tried market socialism. The USSR had a central planning process, and China is more of a mix.

Contrary to Marxist theory predictions, workers never shared a spontaneous will or momentum just by virtue of their "oppressed state". Even less so at a country or global scale. In reality self-called Marxist revolutions never came from the workers. Nearly all leaders weren't workers, but educated. Some of the leaders knew poverty, most didn't. There's a good reason revolutionaries around the world consider be the only ones being "enlightened" enough to be only in charge and that they have to actively steer up inner conflicts among the population to gain a modicum of support.

Also all of these examples are counterexamples to your argument. China got better with liberalization and capitalism, and is now getting worse going reverse.

> Right the workers get paid. However, it is free at the point of service. This comes from taxes duh. I would like to see a citation on Cuba. My understanding is their doctors are trained for free and are expected to serve for a certain number of years in return. Here, we load students with debt, excluding the lower classes from the profession to a great degree.

Yes, and it costs a whole lot and service is not that great. In Canada our health system has been in "crisis" for 20 years now by the way. Citizens in Cuba are not allowed to leave, this is a well known fact, and doctors are the most watched over this for obvious reasons. And sorry but "expected to serve" is just plain slavery. Nobody can be forced to work in a free society. This is why the positive right of "free health care" lead to being forced to work down the line. In Canada right now nurses are forced to work 16 hours shifts, they can't really work in the private sector (there isn't) but leas they can quit without going to prison. And doctors can afford student loans, the real problem is that the US doesn't allow people to default on student debt, which is an entirely another issue.

> In the US, health care is rationed based on ability to pay. This means if you can pay, you get (sometimes) quick service. If you can't pay, you suffer and die (or wind up in the ER where you have to be treated with a bandaid but then they come after you to try to ruin you financially). In a planned system, everyone gets triaged and more urgent problems are prioritized. It is possible to underresource a system, which will result in exaggerated wait times. Better resourcing improves service.

That's not actually true. You will get treated in the US (hospitals can't refuse patients) and then fill up the cost to those who can pay. Yes they can bankrupt you but the real problem is the system being inefficient which finds its root cause in the government: over-regulation, over-litigation and political donations that aggravate these problems. And just thinking that we "should just put resources" to improve services is not a policy is simply a naive privileged customer-like view of the real world with no consideration for scarcity and the complexity of the circumstances.

> It basically depends on whether there is a real incentive to do so as to whether it will happen. The current system in the US will not, but recall that communists call for revolution. It's sad that even capitalist systems in other countries are willing to reduce prices. We are uniquely bad.

Please have a conversation from people of other under developed countries. The US and other Western government are way better even without their problems. Communist countries have to stop their citizens from reporting what is going on on the ground and setup Potemkim villages for a good reason.

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