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Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

theguardian.com

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Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing is the big factor. When it went insane, people who were on the edge of being able to afford housing got forced out. That was a whole lot of people. And when you lose your dream, what's the point of trying anymore?

> When it went insane, people who were on the edge of being able to afford housing got forced out. That was a whole lot of people. It's the same pool of buyers and the same pool of houses, so no one's really getting forced out. If they were all so close, prices would jump as soon as they start buying. It's only interesting if the increase brings a lot more investors to the market.

What? No, it's not. Forced out meaning forced out of the potential buying a house market, not forced out as in evicted. I know because my brother was one of them.

He's been saving for 6 years to finally buy a house on a 45k a year salary in what was a LCOL area, and now he's forced out. Living with our mom, and basically gave up.

The buyers are all the haves, and corporations. The have-nots got forced out.

I make enough, and can afford things. But I'm not blind to the problems of the everyman, and none of us should be. They outnumber us 4 or more to 1.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, people building more houses means more supply which means lower prices. Nobody has yet managed to repeal the law of supply and demand.

The problem is that in high demand areas, it can be profitable for people to buy property purely as speculation without ever having people live there.

As I pointed out earlier, this problem is solved by adding building supply to balance out the supply-demand imbalance causing property to appreciate and be a source of speculation. No one will "invest" in real estate if adequate supply causes no price increases. Any ad-hoc state involved bandaids like rent-control, foreign ownership laws, etc. are unnecessary.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> along with all the associated rights and obligations Government regulation (again) exacerbates this problem. In Seattle, landlords have to give 6 months notice for rent increases. They also are obliged to pay the tenant's relocation costs when the tenant leaves. They can't evict tenants who don't pay rent. Seattle will provide free lawyers to tenants who want to sue their landlords. So, yeah, if the real estate mar…

Right because in a "free market" tenants have no rights. Moving costs a minimum of 1 day of work, which is not available to many working people. As such, without laws to prevent it, landlords could arbitrarily raise rents whenever they felt like it.

> in a "free market" tenants have no rights.

Their rights are what is mutually agreed upon in the rental agreement.

> without laws to prevent it, landlords could arbitrarily raise rents whenever they felt like it.

Many rental contracts have clauses specifying when and how much the rent can change.

Landlords can demand whatever they want, but a tenant would have to agree to it. Tenants can also demand whatever they want, but the landlord would have to agree. That's supply & demand at work.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#64
post #2

The price of everything, from my perspective, has gone insane within the last few months. I would __much__ rather the market were satisfied with more houses, apartments, everything such that people could afford to live places and thus inflation / stagflation weren't the natural result of everyone trying to get ahead and increasing just their own wage. All of the other aspects of the jobs, such as safety conditions an…

That would be basic supply and demand, but I think we are beyond that. Demand for the product (housing) has moved beyond basic consumers (people who want to live in them). Real estate is now a primary investment vehicle. So building more doesn't necessarily mean more houses for people to live in. Rather it will mean more investment opportunities for people seeking to move money into a "safe" asset. That is the cycle…

Supply and demand took a back seat to hoarding assets to prop up investor value.

Taken literally the government is engaged in class warfare by forcing the public to engage in labor for private enterprise to prosper.

America is effectively a caste system, abstracting a persons value into a net worth, focused on gossip, and gaming semantics, very similarly to religious tribes.

Murder rates have come down generally speaking, over the centuries.

The cycle we need to break is letting millions starve and go homeless. We refuse to see it as equivalent to other human atrocities political capture by selfish, bitter men and women.

We need a pivot to new core values entirely. My preference would be along the lines of prioritizing biological/medical health of individuals and setting aside superfluous economic activity. But good luck passing laws favored by the public (polling has shown a majority support universal healthcare for years now).

Work stoppages will force austerity on aristocrats. History is pretty clear that’s what it takes to move the needle politically.

Gaming house prices is, to borrow Greers area/perimeter metaphor for programming, hacking the area of the established perimeter.

Futurists have been predicting collapse of nation states and a re-emergence of the city-state by 2050 for a while now. Often leaning on environmental concern and the lack of Federal exigency to tackle the problem. Perhaps they’re onto something.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that in high demand areas, it can be profitable for people to buy property purely as speculation without ever having people live there.

As I pointed out earlier, this problem is solved by adding building supply to balance out the supply-demand imbalance causing property to appreciate and be a source of speculation. No one will "invest" in real estate if adequate supply causes no price increases. Any ad-hoc state involved bandaids like rent-control, foreign ownership laws, etc. are unnecessary.

Land and Real Estate has other aspects of the demand aside from just "a roof over your head" though. Location and other factors play into it in a big way. For instance if you have a parcel of undeveloped land at a lakeshore, the supply isn't "all land available in the region", it's "All land along that lakeshore" which is a much smaller supply. And lakes are generally a desirable place to live, so the demand is likely high.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that in high demand areas, it can be profitable for people to buy property purely as speculation without ever having people live there.

As I pointed out earlier, this problem is solved by adding building supply to balance out the supply-demand imbalance causing property to appreciate and be a source of speculation. No one will "invest" in real estate if adequate supply causes no price increases. Any ad-hoc state involved bandaids like rent-control, foreign ownership laws, etc. are unnecessary.

Land is finite.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not these days. In hot markets (Vancouver, SF etc) real estate tends to appreciate faster than rent. Having a tenant in a property, along with all the associated rights and obligations, makes a property more difficult to develop or sell. Once upon a time a rental unit with a good tenant was worth more than one without. These days you need to get the tenant out in order to refit and show the property to prospective bu…

> along with all the associated rights and obligations Government regulation (again) exacerbates this problem. In Seattle, landlords have to give 6 months notice for rent increases. They also are obliged to pay the tenant's relocation costs when the tenant leaves. They can't evict tenants who don't pay rent. Seattle will provide free lawyers to tenants who want to sue their landlords. So, yeah, if the real estate mar…

You cross picket lines as well?

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reasons every socialist I talk to actually think a 15-25 hours week of work is sufficient for society to function A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. We don't have a large enough labor-force to operate at full capacity right now (I think including unemployed), we…

> A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. You obviously do not have a lot of experience in manufacturing and technology. Factories can close for many valid reasons: inefficient process, lack of resources, lack of talents, consolidation with other factories, etc. These are all n…

[deleted]

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't see the big, "respectable" unions get involved because under the Taft-Hartley Act general strikes are pretty much illegal. https://web.archive.org/web/20120501041417/http://inthesetim... The thing is, they can't arrest everybody without turning the USA into more of a prison than it already is and setting the stage for John Carpenter's ESCAPE FROM AMERICA. October 15 is a good day for a strike, but in the US…

> https://octoberstrike.com/ Too bad they mixed political ideology in what would have been otherwise a unifying populist movement. Remember, most socialists are upper middle class and above. > Our Goals: 25% corporate tax rate (No loopholes) Free Healthcare for all 12 weeks paid paternity and maternity leave $20 minimum wage 4 day work week Stricter Environmental Regulations on Corporations (Bans on single use and mi…

> Positive rights leads to slavery

Does the positive right for every child to receive 12 years of education result in slavery?

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reasons every socialist I talk to actually think a 15-25 hours week of work is sufficient for society to function A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. We don't have a large enough labor-force to operate at full capacity right now (I think including unemployed), we…

> A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. You obviously do not have a lot of experience in manufacturing and technology. Factories can close for many valid reasons: inefficient process, lack of resources, lack of talents, consolidation with other factories, etc. These are all n…

> Factories can close for many valid reasons: inefficient process, lack of resources, lack of talents, consolidation with other factories, etc. These are all necessary for any kind of healthy systems.

That's not what the St. Louis FED is measuring. They are trying to build an index of maximum sustainable production. We are at about 76% which has declined from the 1970s level of ~90%.

> Immigration is simply moving the problem to another country and is a major problem for developing countries where they people who can keep the lights on are leaving.

I doubt that. Moving labor from a low productivity country to a high productivity one would mean overall more goods are produced. With international solidarity, both countries can be helped. Mass immigration can be somewhat disruptive, but most of that conflict is based on economic fears that they are taking jobs or using limited resources. If they aren't then there's little problem. There are other reasons people have problems with immigration, but I don't consider most of those valid.

> Who is "we"? Most likely not you and me.

Well, either the workers themselves spontaneously or a socialist government grabs it with force of arms. A socialist government is more inclined to help workers than a capitalist one, but even some capitalist ones have cooperative businesses. Countries have different experiences with real workplace democracy including places like Spain, Italy, and the US. Yugoslavia tried market socialism. The USSR had a central planning process, and China is more of a mix.

> Yet Free Health care does not exist.

Right the workers get paid. However, it is free at the point of service. This comes from taxes duh. I would like to see a citation on Cuba. My understanding is their doctors are trained for free and are expected to serve for a certain number of years in return. Here, we load students with debt, excluding the lower classes from the profession to a great degree.

> I live in a "free" health care system, it's more or less the same BS than in the States, but instead of worrying about money we worry about getting service in the first place after waiting hours or days or nothing at all.

In the US, health care is rationed based on ability to pay. This means if you can pay, you get (sometimes) quick service. If you can't pay, you suffer and die (or wind up in the ER where you have to be treated with a bandaid but then they come after you to try to ruin you financially). In a planned system, everyone gets triaged and more urgent problems are prioritized. It is possible to underresource a system, which will result in exaggerated wait times. Better resourcing improves service.

> If you think that a multi-trillion industry with very close relationships with those in the government would let that happen then you are very naive.

This is a just so story. It depends on what political group has power. In the US, majorities want this to happen, so if they were in power it would happen. In this country, we have minority rule so it doesn't.

> Pricing can be negotiated down via monopsony.

It basically depends on whether there is a real incentive to do so as to whether it will happen. The current system in the US will not, but recall that communists call for revolution. It's sad that even capitalist systems in other countries are willing to reduce prices. We are uniquely bad.

> Not everyone can "learn to code" or acquire new higher level skills.

Not every job needs to be automated. I only said that more automation is likely, not that all jobs would be automated. People want jobs that engage their faculties and give them some kind of purpose. No one wants to be a robot. Some will want to slack on easy jobs, but that will be for them to decide. We could offer incentives to workers if a certain sector needs efficiency improvements.

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